More CR-V Fires!

they were referenced back when this topic first surfaced a few months ago.

i guess different folks have different ideas, but personally, i wouldn't
call checking the gasket and mopping spillage "special". honda directed
techs to simply make sure they actually follow existing procedure.

well, i'm not certain, but how do we know someone's not putting 5w-30
into their automatic transmission? that's my argument. there has to be
a point at which someone has responsibility for reading the book.

we'll have to agree to disagree. i think there are much bigger fish to
fry than trying to prevent retards from behaving naturally. i nominate
manufacturers selling vehicles they /know/ to be rollover hazards for
starters.

 

Caroline here is the summary from the NHSTA site:

Make: HONDA
Model: CR-V
Year: 2003
NHTSA Action Number: PE04018
Summary:
THIS INVESTIGATION IDENTIFIED 32 INCIDENTS OF OIL FILTER
LEAKAGE IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLE POPULATION, WITH 22 RESULTING IN VEHICLE
FIRES. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OCCURRED FOLLOWING OIL CHANGES. HONDA'S
INVESTIGATION OF 14 OF THE FIRE INCIDENTS DETERMINED THAT "FIVE OIL FILTERS
HAD STACKED SEALS (DOUBLE-GASKETING), AND NINE OIL FILTERS HAD DISTORTED OR
PINCHED SEALS." ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO
FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF THE
SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW FILTER
AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY
LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED,
DISTORTED, OR PINCHED SEAL CAN BE IGNITED BY HEAT FROM THE EXHAUST SYSTEM,
WHICH IS LOCATED NEAR THE OIL FILTER IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. HONDA WILL
ISSUE COMMUNICATIONS TO ITS DEALERS WARNING OF THE NECESSITY TO FOLLOW
CORRECT PROCEDURES WHEN REPLACING OIL FILTERS IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES AND OF
THE POTENTIAL FOR VEHICLE FIRES TO RESULT FROM IMPROPER REPAIRS. ODI WILL
CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE ALLEGED DEFECT IN MY 2003 AND LATER CR-V VEHICLES.
THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT
CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT NO SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT EXISTS. THE
AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

 

Chrysler products used to have left hand thread on left side wheels.
I think they stopped because of the number of tire gorillas who either
broke or overstressed the studs trying to "loosen" them.

 

i've seen the gorilla thing more than once. even when each single stud
has "L" & "R" stamped into the end of it, some folks still don't get it.
makes me wonder how they ever learned the difference between brake & gas.

 

Many manufacturers used left hand threads on the left side of the car
for wheels. All my Studebakers 1956 and older have this feature. And
you are probably right regarding the tire monkeys failing to see the "L"
on each left hand stud...

Idiots are nothing new but now there are just a lot more of 'em!

 

Another thing that gets my goat is the use of impact wrenches to tighten
lug nuts. I always specify "hand tighten" only.

 

Exactly! If I were researching the current CRV model and ran across a
factoid that 69 of them had caught fire, I'd be looking at the
competiton or another model Honda that isn't catching fire.

Same with the Crown Vic....me no like kablooey...

 

Can't you read?

"ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO
FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF
THE SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW
FILTER AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY
LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED,"

It's still the Tech messing up. The tech. doesn't check for the gasket on
the old filter. Also the tech isn't lubricating the new seal. What they
mean by lubricate the seal is just rub a thin layer of new oil onto the seal
of the new filter before installing it.

Plus if the JOB was done CORRECTLY by THE TECH then oil WILL NOT leak from
the filter.

Chris

 

I used 'crappy' fram filters for all 110k miles I owned my Omni GLH-T and
I never had any problems. The gaskets always came off with the filter. Of
course I always changed my own oil and I always made sure to put a small amount
of oil on the gasket before I installed it.

 

Pinched and/or distorted probably means a filter that was put on too tight.
I always hand tighten my filter. That way I won't need a wrench to remove
it. This method has worked for me on many cars for many hundreds of thousands
of miles.

The filter brand probably has nothing to do with the problem. It is the
tech changing the oil that is the problem.

This is a valid point.

The idiot is the one who can't properly change the oil filter.

 

Nothing different than for any other car. On all cars you always have to make
sure the gasket from the filter you are replacing comes off with the filter,
or remove it on your own if it stayed on the car. Cleaning up spilled oil
is also something you should always do with you do this job. If nothing
else, the oil won't attract dirt.

They should be concerned that they are trusting their vehicles to someone
who doesn't know how to properly change an oil filter. If they can't do
something that simple, you don't want them doing anything else to your car.

 

ive used fram myself on other vehicles with no problems and no gaskets
coming off the filter. usually theres enough oil drippage on the place
where the o-ring goes that if you dont wipe it off, theres no real need
to oil the ring. ill usually dab my finger in the oil change pan and
smear some on anyway tho.

toyota filters on some models used a real o-ring, and it was crimped
into the filter.

 

Oiling the seal makes it easier to get the filter off the next time. I
don't think it has any effect on this installation. I would suggest that
it is Honda that is failing to oil the seal at the factory, so that it
sticks when the oil is removed the first time.

 

I think they'd give up sooner if they didn't have air impact wrenches capable
of ripping the studs apart. They might pay no attention to what the wrench
is doing. "lefty loosey, righty tighty" GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRR. It either
lossens or breaks off. No additional effort required.

A manual wrench would require more effort.

 

I think one of the bad habits is hanging the wheel on the top stud, and
running that nut up to "proper" torque. Then tightening the other lug nuts
overstresses that first lug, as the wheel tilts down to become flat against
the hub.

 

The only thing that was referenced was the NHTSA study and an implication that
of course all parties concerned would be careful to follow the correct
procedures. I wouldn't call this any kind of "directive."

But if you insist it was, then contrary to your assertion, since July 1st, 38
more fires have occurred (beyond the 22 that had occurred by July 1).
Twenty-eight of these were before mid-July. The remaining 10 were since
mid-July.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-09-08-honda_x.htm

If it was that "simple," there never would have been fires.

Note also that the article above focuses exclusively on dealers, not places like
Jiffy Lube, independent shops, etc.

Yup, we disagree.

 

As a rational person, doesn't the fact that these fires aren't occurring on
other cars make you think something is different about this car design?

Maybe not radically different. Maybe not so different to warrant a design
change. But definitely different enough to warrant a different approach to
changing the oil?

Don't read too much into "different." All I'm saying is that "being more careful
than usual" by definition is a different approach.

 

Again something that one needs to know something about: tighten the nuts
evenly, always opposing nuts, until the proper torque is reached. I'm
pretty sure good manuals discuss this technique here and there. Those
who take shortcuts might ignore it, though.

 

That is especially true if you have only four lugs. Never the less, it
is poor practice to immediately to fully tighten a lug.

 

The tech is still not doing his/her job correctly. Doesn't matter if the
seal is lubed at the factory. The tech. should know to look for & remove if
necessary the seal before installing the new filter. TOO SIMPLE!