MORE than expensive - outrageous!

Thank you.

That's still too much as far as I'm concerned. Halve that and I'm
still sore but not so much that I'd complain.

 

Even if the car has only 110,00 miles it stll is 22 years. Some parts
will need replacing even with the low mileage.

I feel like I'm explaining this to my cat. God said forgive them they
do not know any better.

Daniel

 

Rex,

I am doing that now from a guy in Nevada...he has some stock 1200
parts. Lots of 1200 owners here (and just about all of them in
Australia) throw out the stock parts to put in other stuff...for
racing mods. Trying to keep a car stock seems to be harder to do.

But I will admit, I have not at all exhausted the auto salvage yards,
even locally. Still, the fact that the car is so old and yard owners
often shred the older cars, I doubt I'll find on there. LOTS of Datsun
Z Cars, though!

I will continue to look for a good parts car.

Thanks,

John D.

 

That's it I just went out and set fire to my 2002 Accord. Saw my
neighbour do the same this thread is really working.

 

I only read a couple of the many posted responses. I'll add my two cents.
I believe you left out some very important information. I believe you
failed to mention the amount of time spent by the mechanic hooking up the
computerized testing equipment and disconnecting it. You paid for his time
used to figure out what was wrong with your car. You also paid for his
time in removing the old part and replacing the new part. If you check
your bill very carefully--you will see that most of the charges on the
bill were related to labor. If I am wrong about some of these
statements--I apologize. I suppose that it is possible that the part
actually did cost $193 but I doubt it.

 

Okay, before anyone kills me for posting binaries here, it was a
mistake.

I got the first one, the biggest one,

- gizmo_a.jpg (1/1) pictures for alt.autos.honda

posted to

alt binaries.test.

But the other two showed up here. Fortunately they were the smaller
ones.

I know that this isn't a binaries group, so please forgive me.

 

Go price auto glass for older cars.....its more costly for 20-40 year old
cars than the newer ones in production as there are fewer of them on the
road, the glass becomes more expensive, as they can't spread the cost over
many many units. Auto parts are the same thing.....there aren't near as
many 81 Civics on the road as there might be 91 or 01 Civics. Companies do
not look at the profitability of spreading the cost around.....they look at
he profitability of having to support each unit. If this part were no
longer made, you'd gladly pay your $193 to obtain it....used....to get your
car running again. Its your money...you can spend it where you want.....but
don't blame Honda for this.....its pure and simple economics of scale.

 

The part alone is $193 at the Honda dealer's parts counter.

 

I have already conceded that age has SOME bearing on the matter. But
the condition of the running gear and the fact that the car is well
maintained makes mileage a better determinant of the condition of the
car in this case.

The igniter is not one of those parts that's prone to wear and tear or
deterioration over the years. It's one of those run or don't run
parts,
and it should last the lifetime of the car.

 

Yes, if the part were no longer made I would have had to do something
else. But the part IS available and I was ripped off for it IMHO.

As for economies of scale, I am accustomed to seeing that as something
enjoyed by the entire firm, i.e. on the macro scale, rather than an
analysis directed at one part only, unless the part is the only one
they make or a major part of production.

The Honda parts department is full of parts and whatever the costs are
that put them there and keep them there are amortized over all of the
parts in inventory. So the cost per item beyond manufacturing cost is
spread across numerous items.

Sure, the dealer could say that they sell too few of an item to stock
it anymore, but could they call themselves a proper parts department
without it? It's a bit like a grocery store. Probably 25% of the
items in the store account for 90% of their receipts. But, if they
decided to get rid of the other 75% of stock and replace it with more
of what they sell the most of, would they still be a grocery store?
The store I go to doesn't sell too many jars of jalapino stuffed
olives, but they need to carry a few jars in order to call themselves a
grocery store, and carry some other obscure items as well. Otherwise,
they would just be an o'sized convenience store.

So you'd thing that the owner or manager of the dealership would be
aware of the high priced stuff and realize that someone might get a bit
miffed at having to pay $193 for a $27 part, miffed enough to turn
against the dealership. It's bad business.

 

You seem to forget that it is the manufacturer that controls the price of
the product....not the dealership.....and sometimes the dealership doesn't
even stock the item...they order it from the factory warehouse. Their
markup on the product isn't all that much either. The dealer's cost on this
item is probably around $150 or so. One thing I failed to mention......your
so-called $27 part was made to live in an environment of heat, moisture,
dirt, and other corrosive elements. This part was designed to be much more
sturdy than any electronic item put into a laptop computer. I remember
having to buy a new coil in 1981 for my 1980 Honda Accord that I owned then.
As I recall, the price of that part, then was about $50 and a mechanic
friend charged me $15 labor to install it. Your idea of pricing is fixated
back to the 70's and 80's where costs of things have changed immensely. And
your analogy of how a grocery store stocks items is totally off. You can't
compare apples and oranges as is the case here.

 

Someone else here looked up the price at another dealership and it was
$40 cheaper.

That wasn't the case. In a worst case scenario, I would have had to
park the car at the shop o'nite. Again, that wasn't the case, and I
felt compelled to spring for the part because the mechanic had already
done the job except for replacing the part.

I can't account for the relationship between the dealer and the
manufacturer, not the cost structure.

They did this by inserting the electronics into the unit and then
filling the cavity with resin. See the picture called "gizmo" I posted
in alt.binaries.test for a picture of the inside after I removed the
cover.

"Totally off?" Where do you get that? You can't see the parallel
between stocking some obscure auto parts and the stocking of obscure
grocery items? Pretty clear to me. If they just had headlights and
spark plugs, could they call themselves a parts department? No. They
need to have SOME slow-moving parts, they can't all be fast movers.
Just like the grocery store with gourmet items. They need to have
those in order to call it a grocery store. That's not "totally off."
It's not "partially off," "moderately off," or even "slightly off."
It's "right on."

Just because I have an '81 Honda doesn't mean I'm living in the '70's
or '80's. The 1999 notebook computer I use doesn't mean I live in the
90's. I think that the 2003 bread machine I bought means I live just
as far into the new millennium as you do.

 

1) I just bought a 2003 Ford and now I am thinking I should have bought a
Honda, considering yours lasted 22 years and you are whining about $193!!!
If anything, your intended aim (to convince prospective buyers not to choose
Honda) has only made me realize that the cliche that Hondas are reliable,
is, in fact, pretty darn true.

2) If you told the salesperson that you were outraged to have to pay $193
for a "$27 part," I can see how he might have thought that was humorous,
although nonetheless it was rude for him to laugh at you. He should have
saved it for his buddies. The part is not $27 or $19.30. The price is
dictated by the market. Were you speaking to a new car salesperson or a
parts salesperson (neither of whom has any control over changing the price
of your so-called overpriced part.) Did you try speaking to the manager?
The part was obviously worth the $193 price tag, because you paid it. You
were not forced at gunpoint to purchase the part, but merely opted to do so
after considering the prospects of not having a car (that apparently you use
infrequently anyway).

3) I understand being constrained by a fixed income and limited
discretionary spending. Save $2000 and buy one of those new-fangled
IBM-compatible (!) computers at Wal-mart instead of your fancy Apple
notebook.

4) When my last car (1997 Hyundai) kept breaking down, I got savvy and
started calling parts places to find the cheapest part possible, rather than
have to pay the dealership price. Perhaps you do not have a telephone, but
it might be a wise investment. It could save you money in parts long-term.
You quite clearly have access to the internet, and could have used your time
to search for an available 1981 igniter on the internet. But you only use
the internet to complain, rather than for productive, money-saving
activities.

5) For all the time that you have wasted posting, you could have already
made back the $193 you spent on the part through work at a minimum wage
part-time job.

6) Public transportation adds up. A monthly metro pass in NYC is $70. Add
that up, and you will realize that your average expenditure on your '81
Honda is a damn good deal.

Ed

 

<snort>

 

Oh, geeze, my strategy backfired. I hope your dealer sends me a
bird-dog fee when he sells you the car.

But, you know, you have it boiled down to the positive of having lasted
22 years and the negative of having to pay $193. Looks good on paper,
but it ain't that simple. This is not something I had planned for.
Once it happened a series of events took place and one of them was
being jacked up for $193 for what appeared to be a part that should
have been priced far less, IMO. I was faced with paying the $193 or
walking away from a car that I needed. naturally, I did the only thing
I could given the fact that I live alone - I paid their extortion, but
not without deciding to give them some bad PR.

No, I just beefed about the $193. I hadn't by then worked up any
elaborate beef. $27 came along later on after some analysis.

I doubt if market forces have much to do with the price of this part.
If that were the case, then they would have realized that someone like
me would come along and try to cost them customers over time. The part
is there on my dashboard waiting to be the center of a Honda-bashing
discussion. The price does not take that into consideration.
Otherwise it would be priced far less than it is, perhaps something
closer to manufacturing costs and reasonable markups.

I was speaking to the sales manager for a GM/Honda dealership.

Sorry, but walking away from the car is not an option. It's
unreasonable for you to say that I could or should. I paid it because
I had to, and I felt that it was extortion while it happened. That
does not make the part worth $193. I think if it was twice that I
would have had to pay it.

The notebook was purchased for a job. When the job ended, I kept it
for personal use. All on the up-and-up because it was my dot-com we're
talking about. Otherwise, I would likely still be using an older Mac
since I'm not really a power user for email and news. With all of the
problems I've seen my friends have who use stuff from the Evil Empire,
I would stop computing before buying of it. I could give up computing
same as I gave up the telephone.

I think that I have answered that many times during this thread. I was
stuck, just off the hook, needing my car, so I hadda yield to the
dealer's extortion.

But getting back at Honda is a labor of love (hate). There's no wage
analysis that accounts for that. Just think of what the Jews and Arabs
could have done had they applied all of their troublemaking to positive
things since the sons of Abraham quarreled.

I have thought of this extensively. My analysis tells me that I can
live for less without a car while using public transportation. Right
now,because of where I live, the Honda makes sense. I just hope that I
can get into a situation where I don't need a car before the Honda
needs to be replaced.

 

You just continue to amuse me.

You'd rather invent major conspiracy theories rather than accept reality.
You made choices, and now you are pretending it was all decided for you and
you are a poor victim. You enjoy that, being a "victim". I can understand
that, you need someone to blame.

You have choices. You did not have to buy the part,you did, you could have
taken it to another mechanic, you did not, you could have just not repaired
it and got rid of the car, you did not, you could have done many things, but
you did not, you CHOSE to buy the part, you CHOSE to "not to tick off the
mechanic", because to you it was WORTH IT to you to have your car fixed
there and then. This is how economy works and you just JUSTIFIED the cost of
the part buy BUYING it. You can say anything you want, but that WAS YOUR
CHOICE and you took it. If it was too expensive, you would have chosen
otherwise. You are not a baby, take some responsibility for your actions.

Your only justification for the this "outragious" cost was an "analysis"
(your word, not mine) that was so absurd, I had to forward it to my friends
to share the laugh. And now you keep blatantly ignoring your own facts and
keep clinging to this "victimhood" It's your business, but it sounds like a
crappy way to live your life.

Now you say that the part is not available any cheaper - well ask yourself
why? Think hard. If someone can really make it for $27, as you claim, why
aren't they? Why not start a business and sell them for $60 and make a 50%+
profit??? Hell, you can sell it for $100 and still be at 1/2 the price of
the dealer? Maybe you won't have to drive a 22 year old car anymore?

And that "companies just write that off"??? What exactly does "writing it
off" means? Just because you "write it off" does not mean money magically
re-appears in your pocket. You still need to keep a margin high enough to
stay in business and recoup the costs of operation??

You still refuse to see that had it be any other maker, it would have been
just the same (except much less likeley that it would have made it to 22
years in the first place, but that is irrelevant)

In short:

Your analysis of the cost - bullshit
You say you had no choice - bullshit
You say honda ripped you off - bullshit
You say age of a component does not affect it's probability of failure -
well that's basic probability they teach in school - again bullshit.
You say you just do not accept what anyone else say, well that's bullshit of
a whole new veriety. You have no credibility for anything you say and
whether you accept it or not, it won't change the facts

Believe what you will. Whatever delusion makes you happy.

-M

 

You were faced with purchasing an expensive part from a dealership, or
suffering through the inconvience and expense of not having a car while you
search for more economical options for fixing your car. For a 22-year old
car and a part that usually does not require repair, have you once
considered the thought that you could be a very *lucky* person that this
part is still manufactured for your car! And that you were fortunate enough
to have the *option* to purchase this same part?

Perhaps you may "cost" Honda customers. Personally, I doubt it. From
reading the responses your post has generated, it appears that a majority of
responders feel that $193 is a reasonable "unforeseen" expense over the
22-year lifetime of a vehicle (and for a new part for a car that is 22 years
old). Your conversation-piece igniter certainly makes for a funny story,
partially at your indignant yet very earnest expense, but more suited for
the no-longer extant tv comedy Seinfeld than as a smear campaign against
Honda. In fact, this post could single-handedly achieve a monumental
marketing campaign for the longevity of Honda cars (similar to the
popularity of Junior Mints after their exposure in the afore-mentioned
sitcom).

Regardless of how, when, where, or why, nonetheless you purchased the
extremely expensive name-brand computer (and then bafflingly felt the need
to use it as a paradigm of cost-effectiveness vis a vis your Honda part!).

I sincerely hope that you are in such a position that you will no longer
need an automobile (or even a scooter, for that matter) in your retirement
years. Considering your extremely high expectations for your vehicles, I
cannot think of a car manufacturer that will be able to meet them. I highly
doubt that you will be able to eke another 22 years out of a car other than
a Honda, without having to replace the entire car in parts by that time, but
I certainly wish you the best of luck in trying.

 

You must never lived down here on the border!

They steal ANYTHING here, and my car's had several attempts on it...I
ran the last people off with my shotgun when I heard the alarm go off.
They got away before I could kill them. No, I'm not kidding.

Shots are fired down here way too often, usually by the Mexicans at
our US Border Patrol, by the Mexican Army at the Border Patrol, but
sometimes by the Mexican gangs crossing over and robbing American
trains...when, that is, they aren't beating-up/robbing Americans who
have the misfortune of having their cars break down near the river,
steal their cars at local malls (especially around Christmas time when
they have presents inside), or bandits assault/rob people on the
annual pilgrimage/procession every Easter up Mount Cristo Rey. Yes, it
still happens. The local C of C, of course, doesn't want that stuff
told to tourists, they'd rather they be victims and just spend their
money here.

No, an old car is no guarantee down HERE it won't be stolen, not with
our sorry in "Old Mexico" just a short drive over the bridge...or
across the river. 500 cars a month go south...even the police over
there -- local and federales -- proudly drive stolen American cars.

So much for our "good neighbors to the south, eh?"

John D.

 

Yes, all I need is a "few good cars" and I'll be set for life!

When my ex and I got the car, we noticed "Nissan" clearly marked on
two of the the windows but I didn't really know the connection at that
time.

Later on over the years, as I worked on the car, I found a few other
parts marked Nissan, then the name change happened.

John D.

 

Oh, I suppose, but not at the time. At the time I was shocked and
angry that my pockets were being emptied by virtue of what looked to me
to be a simple and inexpensive part. And the sales manager's reaction
prompted a dark feeling in me that made me decide to retaliate by
telling my story to others. The case where the part is no longer
available is speculative and outside the bounds of my consideration.
Had that been the only case, then the mechanic would have had a
solution for me. I might not have liked it either, but it didn't
happen so it's a moot point.

If I cost the local dealer any sales or not is really up in the air.
One future sale for sure it's cost them is mine. Anything beyond that
is gravy. I wouldn't know about Seinfeld since it's not a program I
watch. Same with Friends and a lot of other trash television.

It was a neat paradigm. And I'm very pleased with my Mac and have been
with the others I've had. I understand that it's politically correct
to slam Mac's in this world of PC/Windows trash where the Evil Empire
rules, but it rolls off me like water off a duck's back because it's
just bad hype invented by Evil Empire types who have to justify the use
of inferior equipment and an OS that's just a bad copy of an older
version of the Mac OS.

Thank you. I appreciate your empathy for me.

Do you really think so? I think I can make most cars go 20 years if I
only drive it 100,000 miles in that time and keep it up maintenance
wise. So, why not get together with others on this list and chip in to
buy me one so I can test your theory for you?