MORE than expensive - outrageous!

But you did roll over. "Jawboning" now does not change that.[/QUOTE]

As I've said many times, I had no other viable option. I can't
function where I live without one. As for jawboning, I'll just have to
play it one person at a time by showing them the part and spinning my
story.

 

It was an interesting comparison, IMHO. But not scientific in the
least, nor was it intended to be.

 

But there are LOTS of parts available for old VW's.

I'm not contemplating the purchase of any foreign luxury cars. Just
one more car and that's it. Perhaps the Buick as someone suggested.
Or, if I am lucky enough to get the apartment I want, there'll be no
need for a car at all and I will be out from under the heels of auto
manufacturers, dealers, and insurance companies. The '81 Honda has to
get me about another 40,000 miles. I hope that there are no more rip
off's.

 

Sound familiar...a friend has a 1978 TR-7 (Triumph)...he's got a
Cadillac engine in it.

John D.

 

Look, let's face it. You had a part break on your car. You think
you're unlucky as it supposedly is a part that rarely breaks.
Unfortunately it broke and it cost $193 (probably in part because it
rarely breaks). You seem to think the part is worth less than that.
I've heard $27 based on you looking at the part -- looks like it's
worth $27 -- or weighing it and comparing it against computer
electronics. What you think the part is worth is really only of
interest to you. I think cars are overpriced in general. So what?
Think they'll sell me a car for half price because I think so? Dream
on.

Now I've also heard that the part might have cost less at another
Honda dealer. That's different. If indeed most other dealers sell that
part at significantly less, I'd complain to Honda. It won't get you
any money back, but it might make you feel better.

If you think the dealer laughed at your situation, then complain to
the dealer, Honda and your local better business bureau. My guess (as
someone else suggested) was that they were laughing at your insistence
that the part should cost less than it does. I wouldn't have wanted to
be mean, but if I was in their shoes and you kept insisting that, I'd
probably laugh eventually as well. Obviously I don't know what
happened, so it's your call.

I think you are making a whale of a mountain out of a pretty small
molehill. You keep saying that the others here don't seem to think
$193 is a lot of money. Well in car parts, actually, it isn't all that
expensive. But it's not a $193 extra cost. It's only the difference
between $193 and what you think it should have cost. Ignoring the $27
figure as laughable (even you seem to admit this now) and giving you
a very wide benefit of the doubt, let's say it could have cost $125 at
another dealer. That means you're getting this worked up over $50-75.

As I've said many times, I had no other viable option. I can't
function where I live without one. As for jawboning, I'll just have to
play it one person at a time by showing them the part and spinning my
story.[/QUOTE]

 

Umm hmmm. Then I'd have to crawl in the dirt to adjust the valves.

I'd rather have the new Beetle. What's the word on the street about
those? Good car or what?

I had a '66 Beetle once. It was a neat car and I'd like to have it
back.

 

I guess yuh just hadda be there to appreciate it.

It's getting pretty good play when I tell it in person.

So I'll go with that. And I'll get a good snicker if I ever reckon I
cost the local dealer a sale.

 

VWs being a 'hobby' car that is the platform for many off-road buggies and

Not as many as there used to be, and getting less and less every day.
Hardly ever in the newspapers around here -- with LOTS of desert in
West Texas where lots of VW dune buggies USED to be -- do you ever see
a dunebuggy with a VW engine listed much anymore. Parts aren't as
readily available as they used to be, either.

From all that I have to conclude that the old air-cooled VW engine's
use has been in decline for a long time now...unfortunately.

John D.

 

A bit off topic, but worth discussing, IMHO (okay, so it ain't humble).

Yes, the venerable air-cooled VW bug has been in decline for many
years. What is happening is the car (and the buses, and the buggies)
are declining in numbers from popular numbers to what might be called a
functional level of support or interest. This functional level of
support is that at which the collectors are happy.

I would say that the seeds of decline began with the attempts by VW to
add smog equipment in the late 1960's, and new models in the 1970's
aimed at making them faster for our freeways (Super Beetle, a new
station-wagon-like bus).

The popularity of the beetle in the 1950's was a function of ex-GI's
who remembered the Kubelwagen, many of which were captured and used by
the Allies. In the 1960's, it became a counter-culture vehicle, not in
small part because it was easy to work on. And many of these vehicles
survived because of this base of amateur mechanics, racing, and the
proliferation of small businesses based on the car and engine.

By the mid 1980's, however, these shops were disappearing and the new
crop of kids really had, and have still, little interest in getting
their hands dirty working on old Vee Dubs. In the 1980's and 90's
automobiles in general began to require specialized knowledge and tools
to work on, so there were fewer amateur mechanics across the board.
Kids turned their attention to other things like computers. I would
say that, to the younger generation, computers is the auto mechanics of
today.

So the VW's of old will continue to disappear until there are only
collector cars. Then the "trade" will stabilize, I believe at an
amazing number compared with other collector cars. More than the
mid-50's Chevrolets, more than the late-70's Mustangs and other muscle
cars, more than all of them combined. This will keep many
manufacturers and suppliers going for many, many years.

The basic VW shop is dead, at least beyond California. I have a friend
who has one along with a little wrecking yard and parts store for
air-cooled VW's, and it is only his mail order business and custom
engines that's keeping him alive. He hasn't taken in a wrecked or
disused old-style ('67 and earlier) for two years now. And the
subsequent model introduced in 1968 rarely comes in wrecked or disused.

Just offhand, I would say that the sleeper collector car of a decade
from now will be the 1967 bus and pickup. They were the last year of
the body style and the first year of 12 volts. And there are scads of
parts for these old buses still available. When the Japanese come out
of the depression and begin buying cars again, they will want the cars
of the 1960's just as they bid up the prices of cars from the 1950's.
I believe that the big demand will be for muscle cars and for the
counter-cultural icon of the 1960's, the bug and especially the bus.

Okay, just my opinion, okay. Your mileage may vary. I certainly won't
go to the mat to defend any of this, so please don't excoriate me for
it. If you have an opinion on it, then please present it as... "I
think this is what will happen," and not "You're wrong you blithering
idiot." After all, we're talking about the future and I don't have any
better crystal ball than you.

Thank you.

 

Sounds a little front heavy.

 

How about a copy of Windows 1.0?

 

You're absolutely right.

 

My 8-track tuner/player is still the center of my
entertainment/multimedia system. Computer hooked to it. Television
hooked to it. Turntable hooked to it.

Windows 1.0? I still use Mosaic once in a while for fun.

By Honda standards, my Hamm's churchkey is worth $193,000 (+tax).

 

No, I wouldn't be flaming you...what you say makes a lot of
sense...except for kids and computers.

Sure, lots of kids USE computers -- anyone can do that so it's no big
deal -- but it's mostly for games and other insignifcant kid stuff; I
haven't seen any that can go any deeper and fix one software/hardware
wise! Or build them even though that's simple to do. They just USE
them, that's all. Sure, there are kids that DO the deeper stuff, but I
sure don't run into them around this town and schools, so as general
rule, they don't know much at all.

So I'm not impressed with kids and computers, or when adults say their
kids are "computer whizes"...sure they are. It's mostly just ignorant
parents talking because THEY don't know anything, ANYone who does
seems like a whiz. Besides, I "do" computers myself and kids find out
they can't put stuff over on me as they can their parents...or
teachers for that matter, even teachers in Computer Literacy classes
(I sometimes substitute in the public zoos, I mean schools).

As for kids not working on cars much anymore, well, they'd better get
a pretty good job so they can pay someone ELSE to work on them...but
even then, their ignorance re: cars will cost them, too, when the shop
finds out how little the guys know.

Anyway, as for the VW, I had several of them in my life, the last two
were 1964 and 1966 Buses...wish I still had them. Yes, easy to work on
-- except I didn't like the generator, too many problems with them --
and find parts for.

Nowadays, and maybe even for the rest of my life, I suppose if I had
another VW I could continue to find parts and keep it running, but I
would need to be sure ANY old car I got could still get parts...for
sure...because when you can't get parts, it's pretty much all over.

There's a lot to be said for getting an old "classic" car from the
1960s and early 1970s -- as long as it is a model that still has parts
available at reasonable cost and supply -- no emissions tests to worry
about, easy to work on, and no damn sensors or ECUs. And even a
classic in GREAT condition can cost less than a new econobox nowadays.

In short, considering an older can instead of a new one has a lot
going for it.

John D.

 

(John D.) wrote in

Jay Leno prefers the older cars because when you can't get parts for
them,you can MAKE new parts for them,if you really want to,and can afford
it.But who can make a new ECU for a car with EFI,or new injectors,for that
matter?

 

Leno has some fabulous cars. The 427 AC Cobra is extra nice. How many
Hondas does he own?

I wonder how many cars of today will survive to be the classics of
tomorrow? When I get my next car, I think I'll put away my rusty (and
sometimes untrusty) '81 Honda for future collectors. Instead of $193,
an ignitor should cost $193,000,000 by then at the Honda parts counter.
And only 25% of that will be due to the inflation of the currency.

 

I have a '95 Camry LE four door which I believe is the same body
style. Now the 2 door is the Solara. I think then it was just the two
door.

I think they changed in '97. If so, it's a great car. Mine has 125,000
miles and runs like it did when I purchased it in 95.

Unless it is the DX, $4,500 is actually a pretty decent price. Edmunds
lists the trade-in for the 2D LE as $4,500 and private party sale as
$5,400. The DX is $4,200 and $5,000 respectively.

Of course, $4,000 is even better : - )

 

I remember how nice this car was, but I obviously don't know as much
about it as I might. I'm happy you like the one you have and it makes
me more anxious than ever to try to raise the cash for it. Thanks.

 

John D. wrote:

(snip)

Note: emissions controls in the US started with the '68 models, so you
can't buy anything from the 70's without controls.

 

Maybe where you are, but not here.

In fact, people in general -- let alone kids -- don't know anything of
any consequence whether it's academics, cars or computers. But they
CAN tell you what some airhead nobody "celebrity" said/did. Or the
words to some stupid commercial.

BFD.

Benchmarking? Who cares.

Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

John D.