motor oil thoughts

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by jim beam, Oct 10, 2006.

  1. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    i'm sure we've all read the story about castrol and mobil's legal
    struggle over use of the word "synthetic". to recap, we have
    "synthetic" as in poly alpha olefins [pao's] and "synthetic" as in group
    III mineral oils as per the following descriptions:

    from
    http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/articleviewer.asp?pg=vcc20060101so&cccid=2&scccid=2
    we read

    "...synthetic base oils are created through a series of chemical
    synthesis. The starting materials may be a mixture of relatively pure
    small molecules. In this case the small molecules are combined to make
    new, larger molecules. Alternatively the starting material may be a
    broad mixture of larger molecules. In this case the large molecules are
    broken down and rearranged."

    i.e. valvoline's defintion of "synthetic" include both pao's /and/ group
    III's since they use the word "alternatively" rather than something
    inclusive like "additionally". i think we can therefore conclude that
    valvoline doesn't include pao's - ok, no problem so far.

    otoh, we have
    http://mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Why_Synthetics.aspx
    where we have

    "...Mobil 1® uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins
    (PAOs)"

    note the magic word "including". by reputation, M1 has a pao base, but
    use of that one simple word clearly leaves the door wide open for
    something else. so, reading further we have:

    http://mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs2
    where:

    "...Mobil 1 Extended Performance, with the Advanced SuperSyn System,
    contains 50 percent more SuperSyn than Mobil 1."

    really? so, since "SuperSyn" is the magic pao ingredient, how is it
    mathematically possible for one type to contain "50% more" pao if pao is
    the base for both??? answer: it's not.

    conclusion:
    the much-vaunted mobil 1 is not as is popularly believed. it's simply a
    group III mineral oil, with additives, /including/ pao's, the
    proportions of which are undetermined, but may vary depending on price
    point.

    personally, i'd like to see ingredients lists on oil like we have for
    foods or things like shampoo. that latter is an extremely high margin
    and competitive industry. constituent lists for shampoo enjoy legal
    protections, so fear of competition is no excuse. why not publish
    constituent lists for motor oil? there's no legal reason not to do it.
     
    jim beam, Oct 10, 2006
    #1
  2. jim beam

    Mike Smith Guest

    I suppose this would be fine, but it would also be meaningless to 99.99%
    of consumers. And, ultimately, what's important is which service grades
    (e.g. ILSAC, API, manufacturer specs) the oil is tested and proven to meet.
     
    Mike Smith, Oct 10, 2006
    #2
  3. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    both oil and shampoo, but is that a reason? i think not. consumers are
    quite capable of reading food ingredient labels if they have an allergy
    - i see no difference here other than oilcos not having as much vacuum
    into which marketing can be injected, but that doesn't disadvantage the
    consumer.
     
    jim beam, Oct 10, 2006
    #3
  4. jim beam

    Earle Horton Guest

    You pour shampoo on your head, at least I do. You don't pour motor oil on
    your head, at least I don't. People having their hair fall out and getting
    strange rashes from poorly concocted formulations is thought to be the
    business of government, while having your pockets emptied is your own
    lookout. It's not a problem if you don't buy synthetic.

    Earle

     
    Earle Horton, Oct 11, 2006
    #4
  5. jim beam

    jim beam Guest

    "thought to be" vs. "is"??? how do you differentiate? consumers only
    get to know where their money goes if it's a health issue but anything
    else is fair game? revealing perspective.
     
    jim beam, Oct 11, 2006
    #5
  6. jim beam

    jmattis Guest

    Jim, I think you nailed it. I've been convinced for a long time:
    Synthetics are a blend, because it costs too much to synthesize a whole
    quart to sell for only $6.00.

    That means that the "synthetic blends" are a misnomer; they're just
    /further diluted/ synthetic base with a whole lot of mineral oil.

    Unjust enrichment, bait and switch deceptive ads, disgorgement of
    profits, all that class action stuff, will probably get us fifty-cent
    off coupons in 2 or 3 years when some law firm gets hold of this.



     
    jmattis, Oct 11, 2006
    #6
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