my civic and its timing belt

Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
I've never done something like this before, though I would
like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.

Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
to know?):

-The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes
to get that little b5@%ch off.
-I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
the car. Yeesh.
- Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that
happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to
do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between
then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about
SCARY.

Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it
done.

t

 

Of course?

They didn't even lecture you about how you should have it done there?

If not, you must have charm!

Wow. They should have called Caroline's Garage (underwritten by Eric,
Mike, Curly, Jim, Rex, George et al.). Woulda had it off in five.

"Whew" indeed.

So one bolt was holding it in place??

If so, pretty cool that the one bolt was sufficient.

Good update.

 

That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place
was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water
pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held.

As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's
shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a
7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then
proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I
stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around
until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the
end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt.

The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They
know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize
that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their
high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly
regularly.

later
t

 

Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell.
Your approach is of course one of many, but I'm not sure it's all that
reliable. Or it may be, but those who get it to work show signs of
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free.
;-)

I don't think I've ever read of a special pulley holder tool (bought
retail or made at home, customized to the particular pulley) failing
to work.

Anyway, you're home free now. Next time should be much easier, no?

I wish some of these Canadian dealerships would move South!

 

Now that you've done it, congrats. Doing the water pump is definitely worth
the time and money spent.
Here is a trick I use on all timing belts. I paint marks on the belts and
pullies prior to disassembly. I mark them so each pulley has a unique mark,
so they can't be placed on the wrong pulley. I then transfer the marks to
the new belt, counting each tooth, to be sure it is the correct belt. Then I
place the new belt on, lining up all my marks.
This helps alot if the car has 4 cams.

 

Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs.
I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders.

 

My son and I tried to do the belt on his '94 Acura, and the weenie 230 ft-lb
impact I had didn't even come close. The 18 inch breaker bar was inadequate,
too. Now I'm looking at better impact drivers - there is a 500 ft-lb Husky
for $100 at Home Depot, but I'd like to see more powerful choices.

NAPA had a 1" drive 1400+ ft-lb mama listed in their catalog. Betcha that
would do the job, if it didn't rip the engine out of the mounts! I'd love to
rent one of those babies for the crank bolt. Imagine - the bolt head is
smaller than the drive end.

When I first did the belt in our rear wheel drive Volvo, I put the breaker
bar on a floor jack and lifted. Nearly had the front wheels off the ground
before it started moving. (I'm sure glad they were new engine mounts.) There
just isn't any room for that in the Honda.

I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen those
bolts.

Mike

 

groups.google for the numerous reports and cussing on the subject
consistent with my statement above.

 

It's crossed my mind to break my 91 Civic's pulley bolt free and then
torque it to spec once a year, to help preclude headaches when I
actually have to change the timing belt every six years/90k miles
(for my Civic).

I am convinced it's the heat cycling that raises the breakaway torque
to estimates of over 500 ft-lbs in many cases. That is, during
operation, the bolt gets very hot and stretches (expands). The
rotation of the crankshaft (of course so as to tighten the bolt) can
and does tighten the bolt. When the engine cools, the bolt contracts,
tightening it beyond the spec. of typically between 100-200 ft-lbs.

In industry, some large machinery applications have large bolts with
wells (holes) in them. By design, bolt heaters are inserted into them
to free them up, take apart the equipment, and the later re-assemble.
What's measured to achieve the proper tightness is not ft-lbs, but
length that the bolt stretches.

I've never heard of anyone seeing any dust on these pulley bolts. Mine
at 13 years and 150k miles looked new.

 

I tried to do the timing belt on a Toyota about 20 years ago and got
stuck at the crank pulley bolt. Then a friend said that all you do is
jam the socket wrench into the bumper, or whatever, and then just turn
the key ever so quickly. You just want to turn it over. Apparently it
spins off on it's own.

By the time I heard the trick I had gotten rid of the car. I wonder if
anyone had tried it with a honda?

Peter H

 

I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.

But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
it is meant to be.... hehehe)

t

 

I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it on
the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more controlled
version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way if an
engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least the
engine isn't still turning.

Mike

 

It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
just-in-case. It always works

 

What's the peak torque on that?

Mike
shade tree fixit man

 

The gun I was using was 650 ft-lbs, with a 7.5HP 20Gal
compressor, and it still wouldn't break the bolt free...

 

I just bought a 500 ft-lb driver, and the Honda is no-go with that. I bought
it anyway because I know there are some driveaxles in my future, and the
smaller driver wouldn't handle them well. Oh, well - that one was only $30
anyway!

Next attempt: using a high temp (800F) heat gun on the bolt and then trying
the 500 ft-lb. If still no-go, I'll see what I can rent. Failing that, I'll
see what the dealer wants for breaking it loose.

Mike

 

I have seen it documented in several places that 500 ft-lb air wrench will
not do it.

I think I would be at least a little fearful of destroying a seal or some
other important piece of plastic in the vicinity using heat. Also, I don't
think it will help.

If you don't have the immobilizer tool, you can get it for about $25 from
http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm

Put your impact socket and a hardened impact extension on it (long enough to
clear the fender but no longer because it is going to twist). Find a
hardened breaker bar and extend it with a 4 foot piece of gas pipe. I used
a jack stand for a fulcrum. The extension will twist about 90 degrees, then
the bolt will break loose with a pop. This sounds ugly, but it is a lot
cheaper than buying ever bigger impact wrenches and you don't have to be
particularly strong to do it.

 

I used a chain wrench to immobilize the crankshaft, and
used some jackstands for a fulcrum, with a 6 foot breaker
bar. It did NOT work. Perhaps if I had the proper crank
immobilizer, but I am fairly certain that I would have
just broken some tools.

But I think Michael has the right idea, some heat (not too
much as you don't want to cook the seals) would probably do
the trick. In fact, if you think about it, thats what an
impact gun would do after a while, that bolt would get
really hot, even if it wasn't spinning.

Michael, I think the big difference is not really the air tool, at
least not if its 500ft-lbs or over, in my opinion. The big
difference is the strength of your compressor. Also, the
size and length of the air hose going to the gun. When I
took my car to Honda finally, they used their 1/2" air hose,
not a 3/8 like we all use.

t

 

Interesting how the show to torque the crank pulley bolt in the
shop manual (honda factory manual). They say to seat the bolt at 14
ft-lbs,
then mark it and the washer with a marker at 12 o clock. Then turn it
until it is at 3 o clock. It would be kinda hard I'm thinking,
since the crankshaft will turn a little when you are
torquing it, but if you could use the embossing marks as
a reference, it might work.

t

 

You're reading my mind, T. I went to the local rental place and the
knowledgable-sounding mechanic said he had used their 440 ft-lb electric
(with 3/4 drive) to break loose a Subaru and a Honda crank bolt. 440 is less
than 500, so something is incomplete....

A 50 ft 3/8 inch hose with a cheap regulator at the tank isn't what I'd
choose for best whack. I'm headed to the stores today to see about a 1/2
inch hose and a regulator to put at the driver end, so I can pump the hose
up to 120 lbs without blowing up the tool.

In addition, I'm thinking about using the strap wrench on the socket (it is
a deep socket) to take the slack out. My son said the socket got hot to the
touch, so we must be losing some of the energy at the socket interface, too.
I'm hoping the strap wrench will take care of that.

I've seen ads for tools to counterhold the pulley from the inside - they fit
that large hex recess - and it would be nice to have one. That would
probably "buck" the bolt best, especially if I could rest it on a jackstand.

I'm just glad we aren't in a hurry.

Mike