Need some help once again

well it seems like i'm needing help at least once a year or so, but I
trust you guys well, because you've always been right in the past.
anyways, ran a compression test a few months back. all were at about
180 except for #3, which was 130. A few weeks ago, I took the engine
out, replaced that pistons rings ( even tho I shoulda done all of
them, but couldn't afford it) along with the oil pan gasket, head
gasket, valve cover gasket, all my belts, and a few motor mounts. put
it all back together and it runs like a champ...around town. when i
went out of town the other day, i got about 2 hours down the road and
had to put a quart of oil in the car. also there was a hazy oil
smudge all over my bumper and the back of the trunk. ran another
compression test today and they all checked about between 180 and
165. is this the exhaust valve? seals?

basically i guess i need to figure out what the problem is and decide
whether i need to replace the culprit, get a reman. head, get a jdm
engine, or just sell the car for what its worth. all those parts that
were replaced were OEM courtesy of hondaautomotiveparts.com!

thanks,
Ricky
93 civic lx 1.5
208k miles

 

just the rings on #3??? that's highly irregular. what is the
compression on that cylinder now?

and did you deglaze the cylinder before re-fitting the piston? if so,
how did you clean up afterward? also, how did you clean the head/block
before reassembly?

excess oil consumption is typical if rings don't seat or wear
excessively. if you didn't deglaze, the new rings won't seat, or if
they do, only /VERY/ slowly. and it'll suck oil.

otoh, if you used abrasives in cleanup and/or deglazing, you could have
wear problems already. after deglazing, you MUST clean up very
thoroughly because abrasive remains embedded in the metal surface. you
need to scrub the walls thoroughly with a wooden bristled brush and lots
of soapy water to do a good job of clean-up. if you used abrasives on
the head/block, same problem, only it's now stuck in the cylinder/piston
gap.

bottom line, rebuilds, unless undertaken by an anally obsessive freak
that charges a fortune, or you are an anally obsessive freak, are
usually doomed to premature death. much better use of time to buy a
cheapo jdm motor and enjoy a nearly new lease of life.

[beware some jdm - there's a bunch of d15b1's out there. low power due
to a low-lift econo-cam.]

 

Yea just on #3. On a college budget, so I really couldn't swallow the
extra 70 for the rest of them at the time. The compression on that
cylinder was around 165. The others ranged between 175 and 180.

I did the work with my girlfriend's dad, who is very particular with
the work. We did deglaze the the cylinder, measured all the rings up
with a feeler gauge, cleaned the piston with a broken old ring, etc.
as far as the head, just used light pressure with a scrape and then
cleaned it up with some sandpaper and wiped it off with a rag. taped
off all the coolant and oil ducts with painters tape to make sure
nothing fell in.

being that i only burn oil on the highway, 3k+ rpms, it just makes me
think that the exhaust valve gets stuck open or something. i have
been looking around for another d15b7 engine, but it seems like that
might be a bit of a challenge..

the only reason i am concerned is because i travel a lot and oil is
definitely not cheap right now haha

 

next time, use a scraper and solvent only. i've seen this stuff under
the microscope - it's almost impossible to /not/ get abrasive into the
critical parts of the engine if you use abrasives.

paradoxically, the coolant channels are probably the least critical.

doesn't burn oil.

d15b2's do the same job and are readily available.

fixing it properly is the right thing to do. technically, you can
repair that motor, but in reality, it's not worth it when you can buy
jdm so easily and so cheap.

depending on state, you could even get [and legally smog] a single cam
zc motor for <$500. those things ROCK. if you're in california,
unfortunately, they're not street legal.

 

well..im pretty sure down here in the sunshine state they have never
asked for emissions test. whats the full engine code on that?

thanks for all your input

Ricky

 

there are other sources, but this is the one i have in mind.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-HONDA-CIVIC-SI-ZC-SOHC-1-6-L-JAPANESE-ENGINE-JDM_W0QQitemZ250432875197QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3a4ef66abd&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

basically the same as the d16a6, but with a more aggressive cam. its
code is "zc", and that's it.

i can vouch for the cam because i have one in my crx - lotsa lotsa fun!!!

 

oh wow nice find.

i'm unfamiliar with how the whole liter thing works...any special
things that would need to be done for this to be swapped in or is it
just a straight bolt on exchange...besides the belts, hoses, sensors,
etc..?

 

afaik, it's bolt in - why i mentioned it. seen many such transplants in
junkyards. belts and all accessories are standard d16. oil cooler is
like the prelude, but you shouldn't need to mess with that. get an
exhaust from your generation of ex for best results. otherwise, works
great stock. junkyards are your friend. use quality oil 'cos this
motor revs high and hard and pulls best up at the top end.

 

speaking of the devil, i was just there today. very cool, thanks for
the find. your're a rockstar

 

wait..a few more things. do these bolt up to an auto tranny ( not
sure if all the zc's are 5 spd) and do they have a space for the air
conditioner? possibly idiotic questions, but you never know

 

yes, i've seen them bolted up to auto transmissions. [all the zc's are
5-speed - they have their own beefed-up transmission if you can find
one. you might need hybrid driveshafts because i believe the inner
joints are larger like integra.] i believe a/c still fits - it's a d16
block, but i've not seen that.

 

Oh this is BAD BAD BAD. My mechanic (who has rebuilt countless engines and
replaced countless head gaskets) SPECIFICALLY says ***NEVER*** under ANY
circumstances to use ANY sort of abrasive to remove head gasket remains.

It is, as you say, impossible to keep the "sand" particles out of the
cylinders, and the result will be very rapid wear and very high oil
consumption very quickly.

 

i've come up with a slightly expensive, but temporary solution. being
that the compression wasn't bad and i only burn oil at high rpm's on
the highway..i can only think that the exhaust valve may be getting
stuck open or the seal may be leaking. called around today and i can
get a head from a local junkyard for $75 and i could send it off to a
place that the honda dealership recommended for a complete rebuild for
$250.

I kept digging to find another d15b7 engine, but couldn't find one
without going to a vtech and having to change my exhaust & intake
manifolds..

thoughts on this?

 

wrote in @c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:

That would have nothing to do with oil consumption. If a valve was stuck
open (or burnt) you'd get pretty much zero compression in that cylinder.

Not likely to do much for your oil consumption.

I think your problem is in the block, not the head. Are you quite certain
you installed the new rings the correct way around? Installing them upside
down will do very bad things for oil consumption (they are NOT flat). Did
you rotate the rings so the gaps are properly away from each other, and did
you check the ring end gaps to make sure they were correct? Are you certain
the bore was not worn oval? Are you certain the pistons' ring groove
clearances are not excessive?

A VTEC engine will still function well with the VTEC disconnected. You'll
just lose the "high rev" cam lobes, that's all.

 

yea, all the rings were put on with the letter facing up and turned so
it was not on the compression side of the piston or whatever the
manual called it. we checked every ring by pushing inside the chamber
with the piston and using a feeler gauge. all were well within the
new limits. it's just completely throwing me off that it only occurs
on the highway. i think a may do a leak down test either tomorrow or
friday to see if i can pin point it further.


I would definitely be willing to throw in a vtech if i didn't have to
get the manifolds from the donor car. i just can't spend all that
money for those right now.

hopefully this leak down will give me a better idea of whats going on.

-Ricky

 

wrote in :

I suspect the problem is bore/ring/piston wear caused by the abrasive
particles from the sandpaper you used to clean the block surface. In other
words, the engine is now permanently damaged. For your sake, I hope I'm
wrong.

You're burning oil only on the highway now, but you'll be puffing
everywhere before long.

 

wrote in :

Did you put all the ring gaps so they were in line with each other?

 

no the manual had the gaps at arranged at different points around the
piston

i don't believe any particles could have made it into the cylinder
because they were taped off until i was finished. when the oil pan
was off, my crankshaft looked amazing and all looked well under there.

i could really find out how fast i am getting rid of oil on the
highway if i had remembered to throw the new oil pressure switch on
there while i had the engine out. now i just have to stop every two
hours and do a check.

i hope you're wrong as well about the problem being in the block. i
guess we will find out in the next few days!

 

I could also be a ventilation issue/emmissions etc.

JT

 

complete waste of money. valves aren't sticking or they'd either be
sticking open - measurable as zero compression - or making a clattering
noise you could hear in rio. and valves themselves don't burn oil.
even with no seals, oil consumption is minor.

don't need to change manifolds afaik. it's better if you do for
performance, but i don't believe it's a prerequisite for bolt-on.