Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

Well, no kidding. These gadgets are for the rare occasion that someone
FORGETS to turn off lights, or perhaps one door doesn't close
completely, causing the dome light to stay on all night.

You've NEVER had a discharged battery?
[/QUOTE]

Not from any of the causes that have been cited in this thread. And I
don't believe in "latest/biggest/bestest/most-tech-est" just because
it's there - Which is one of the primary reasons why I drive an older,
carbed, non-computer-controlled, not-automatic vehicle that can easily
be started with a quick push and clutch-pop.

 

Once upon a time (80's to early 90's?) there were car batteries sold
with smaller backup batteries built-in. This back-up was always
charged off the the main supply, but they had to be manually switched
on if the primary battery was drained. The brand I recall was Champion
(as in the spark plugs). I think it was just a trademark licensee
using the brand name.

 

Your alternator is NOT a trickle charger. There's nothing in there to
limit the recharge rate aside from the alternator's capacity.

 

You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the
alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right?

Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark
plugs?

Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even
after the other car's battery is disconnected?

 

Actually, once the alternator is going, it will power the fuel
injection and the sparkplugs. How much fuel injection can happen before
there is enough current for the ignition coil, right? Can the fuel pump
get into action faster than the ignition system? What's faster,
spinning up a fuel pump, or building up field in a coil?

I read about this cat burning risk, but now the more I thinkg about it,
the more it sounds like complete bullshit. As in, aside from the the
converter being able to take it, it never actually happens.

Thanks for providing some perspective on this.

 

Yes. About 2-6 amps overnight. But, a charge from the alternator on
a dead battery is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

nb

 

Sorry, but if you had read the thread you would have found out that most
alternators need power input to turn on when they spins up. No battery,
no alternator power.

Pushing the vehicle will not turn on the alternator with a flat
battery. Boosting it gives the alternator power to turn on.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
..

The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to
operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the
generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that
voltage AND charge the dead battery. I have always had stick shift
cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine
management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was
really dead, no go.

 

FWIW, i personally push started a 98 corolla. the battery didnt have
enough juice to turn the starter, but apparently it had enough to get
the ECU to work for the time being.

 

Did you try /disconnecting/ the dead battery? There is no point of a
dead battery being in the circuit during starting. All it does is suck
up current. You can reconnect it when the engine is running. Or maybe
not. If the battery is really completely dead, it's probably better to
charge it with a proper current-limiting charger anyway. If you can
get to a charger without too many more push-starts (ideally zero), I'd
do it that way.

 

Yes, they need a field current. But that has nothing to do with the car
being modern, does it? Are alternators considered modern?

With a completely, utterly flat battery, no.

 

My first car had a generator, so for me only modern cars have
alternators. For that matter they also have power steering, servo
brakes, electronic ignition not to mention radial tires........

 

Considering the alternator will barely charge the battery when the car
is idling (say about 800rpm), you're gonna be pulling that rope for a
looooooong time to do any good.

I think you're going to have to
a. Install an alarm device to remind you to turn lights etc. off.
or
b. Learn from your previous mistakes...

Cheers,
Steve

 

My first car pushed its pistons using carbon dioxide released by baking
soda dumped into water. Crazy, drag-racing daredevils used metallic
sodium instead, which releases hydrogen! Some of these guys would
actually light the exhaust on purpose to create dramatic flames. (Using
their Cuban cigars, of course). Then some clever, inventive type tried
lighting the hydrogen /within/ the cylinder for additional power,
having come up with a mechanism for mixing the gas with air before it
enters the cylinder chamber. The internal combustion engine was born!

By the way it took nearly a decade to replace the in-cylinder Cuban
cigars by the invention known as the spark plug. Early ignition coils
were powered by banks of potatoes with zinc and copper electrodes stuck
into them.

(The web page http://latteier.com/potato/ gives a good gist of this).

There were folks who grumbled about how their old-fashioned steam cars
could be made to start and run on whatever available material that
could be found that would burn, plus whatever water one could find.

 

my 98 civic hatch doesnt, and i kinda like it that way.

 

You seem to be a little behind. If your battery is actually dead, the
alternator doesn't generate electricity when it spins.

And if the spark plugs fire, you don't need to worry about
unburned fuel-air mixture in your exhaust because the mixture will
ignite.

 

Yes. Before there were alternators, there were generators. These had
permanent magnets and did not require a field current to start.

 

"Alternator" is another name for "AC generator".

Both AC and DC generators can use either permanent magnets, or field
coils.

The DC generator is an alternator modified with a commutator and
brushes to mechanically rectify the output.

Both devices go back to the 1800's.

What allowed the switch to AC generators in cars was the invention of
semiconductor diodes to rectify AC to DC. If you can call anything
modern, the diode would be it.

Or would it?

Rectifying semiconductors were used to make "crystal set" radios in the
very early 1900's. Ironically, they were then made obsolete by vacuum
tubes in the 1920's.

 

For one thing, if an alternator needs power to its field
coil in order to work then how did the car run without
the battery?

 

you probably can't push start an alternator car completely without a
battery, unless there is enough residual magnetism in the field coils to
allow the alternator to bootstrap itself.

nate