oil change

My car has 145,000km and I've been getting the oil changed religiously
at every 5000km. Anyways, today I took it at the Honda dealership for an
oil change, drove it home and checked the oil. The oil in the engine was
obviously fresh from the resent change, but it was already dirty. I took
the car back to the dealership and inquired about the problem and the
service rep told me it was because my engine was old. And, I needed to
have my engine flushed. I've had many cars in the past and have yet to
encounter a situation in which the oil would gets fowled up over a 15km
drive. The Honda Rep acted as if its was common knowledge that an older
car's oil would be dirty after an oil change. Can anyone support her
conclusion???

btw, I'm planning to get the oil changed again (next week) at a local
mechanic shop while i'm on site. I'm going to ensure the the oil filter
is replaced and I doubt I'd encounter the same situation described
above. The most frustrating thing about this entire situation is that
I've been giving the bastard mobil-1 to use (I wonder what they've been
doing with in...).

Pars
98 Hatch

 

"fresh... but... dirty"? This is kind of a confusing statement. Do you have
a lot of experience checking the oil appearance before and after an oil
change? I just want to check this...

I've had experience with oil changes in two cars having over 115k kilometers
on them, and I have never observed dirty-looking oil after driving only a
short distance. (I always change the oil filter, too, on these oil changes,
BTW.) The oil always looks pretty golden for at least hundreds of miles;
probably over a thousand or even two thousand (depending on the quality of
the filter I used?). My cars have never had an "engine flush." Does she mean
an injector cleaning? Or use of a fuel additive that allegedly cleans the
engine's cylinders and valves?

I did replace my positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve recently, and
this seems to have resulted in cleaner oil for a longer time. It's a roughly
$20 or under part and takes under ten minutes for an experienced technician
to change out. Have you had this replaced yet? If not, I'd say you're due. I
now plan to change mine out around every 100k kilometers; maybe more often.

Have them give the old oil and old filter back to you. Compare it to some
new oil of the same brand. Maybe this shop would be willing to break open
the old filter and give their opinion on whether it's fairly new.

I have only used non-synthetic oils in my Honda, so I can't comment on
Mobil-1. (Been thinking about switching, though. Need to research it.)

Let the group know what happens...

 

I read where the new supersyn Mobil 1 is darker than the previous
versions. This might explain why the oil is darker than it used to
be.

Here is the statement:

http://members.aol.com/carleyware/library/mobil1.htm

The new ingredient gives Mobil 1 a slightly darker color than before,
which improves visibility when reading a dipstick. The new additive
also allows Mobil 1 to pass a much wider battery of industry oil
standards, including ILSAC GF-3, American Petroleum Institute's
SL/SH/CF specifications, European ACEA standards and Japanese
valvetrain requirements.

-
--
Curtis Newton

http://surf.to/cnewton
<delete remove-me. to respond to email>
ICQ: 4899169

 

When looking at the oil with the naked eye, it was similar in color and texture
to the the oil in a fresh bottle of mobil-1. However, it was blacken with
obvious sediments floating in the oil. This was apparent when whipping the oil
onto a white paper towel. .I also did a back-to-back comparison by dipping the
oil-stick into a fresh bottle of mobil-1 and comparing it with the stuff in the
engine. The difference was very noticeable.

I've driven 7 cars (since 1986) and have done all the maintenance work for my
dad's car when I was younger. I've also never noticed the oil looking dirty
immediately after an oil change.

I assumed an oil flush since the problem isn't with the fuel system (perhaps I
should have clarified it). BTW, the stuff that Honda uses is more golden in
color (my wife has the same model car but she uses the Honda oil) while the
mobil-1 seems a little more transparent and brownish in comparisons.

Sounds like good advice since I've never had it changed. However, I doubt it
caused the problem describe above, unless the PCV can retain a great deal of
dirt that can be blown back into the engine.

Keeping or braking-open the old oil-filter sounds like a good Idea. I'll mention
it to the mechanic.

I highly recommend it. I still hve one of the fastest stock 98 Hatch on the
road, even after 145,000km of abuse. Last week, I got a 650km from a tank of gas
from combined city and highway (usually I get less mileage, but I was taking it
easy because of the black-out).

will do.

thx,
Pars
98 DX Hatch

 

[Other latest comments from pars about comparing the oil in the car with new
oil noted, along with other poster's comment about Mobil-1 being darker.]

Yes, it can. The PCV valve is a check valve. It permits the passage of
crankcase fumes to the engine's air inlet, so any uncombusted fuel in the
fumes may go through the combustion process again. It improves the engine
efficiency, among other things.

My original PCV valve was over 200k kilometers old and was fully of a waxy,
black, buildup. I am sure it wasn't working as designed. (Some people have
posted ways to check it here in the past, but after reading up on it, it was
a no-brainer to me to just replace the thing, given its age.) My fuel
mileage improved a lot after I replaced it. I check my oil about once a
week, and I think my oil is staying cleaner longer, too.

I am a little doubtful it can dirty up your oil so quickly. But maybe so.

snip

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a closer look before my next oil change.

 

Interesting. But, the dirt was obvious after wiping it onto a white paper
towel.
BTW, I have some doubts about this new Mobel-1..but I guess I don't have a
choice. My stash of the old stuff recently ran out.

Pars
98 Hatch

 

Be sure to "whip it good".

 

From what I know, and "engine flush" is where they dump some kind of
cleaner into your engine and let it idle for a minutes prior to
changing the oil. This is supposed to loosen up any buildup inside
your engine and the contaminants will come out when they change your
oil. That's what they say, anyway. I've had it done once in the life
of my car (200K+ km), and Walmart charges $10 on top of the regular
oil change to do this. For some odd reason, they claim they do not
sell this "engine flush" to the general public and can only have it
done at the garage. (?)

That being said, I would agree with the diagnosis that you need an
engine flush, as there is likely some buildup inside your engine and
some of the debris broke free after changing the oil and that is the
"dirt" you see in the fresh oil...

Then again, I never claimed to be a certified mechanic, so what do I
know... ;-)

Definitely change the PCV if you never have before. It's a very cheap
part, particularly if you don't go OEM. I actually just bought a Fram
PCV valve for my Integra at Walmart - $3.97CND!.... and that was one
of the more *expensive* ones. 30 seconds to install.

The easiest way to check if the PCV is still good is to unplug it and
give it a shake - you should hear the bearing inside rattle. If it
doesn't, then it's all gummed up and not doing it's job. But again,
after 100K+, I think it's worth changing for $4 whether it rattles or
not.

I find this statement amusing. Which is it - is it stock or is the
"fastest 98 Hatch"? If it truly were *stock*, would it not stand to
reason that all "98 Hatches" (of same engine/trim, obviously) would be
equal?


Kevin
96 Integra

 

IME, on old engines it's normal for the fresh oil to take a slightly darker
cast more quickly than a newer engine but I can't say I've seen any
difference between say, a 60K engine and 100K engine in that respect - both
take a slightly darker cast quickly, since a drain can never drain all the
engine in the block passages. Check the dry fill for a stripped down
engine vs. an oil change with filter to see how much gets left behind.

Did you check if they did a proper drain through the drain hole? Some
quick places - dunno about dealers - use the suction tube down the dipstick
hole to do the "drain" and it will not get all the old stuff out. You
*did* check your engine serial number" is correct?

Have you checked the inside of the oil filler cap for residue?... also have
a peek down inside the hole for any possible accumulated crud. What air
filter are you using? Check it for holes.

You could always get an oil analysis done to be sure - save a sample of the
drain of what the dealer put in to have it checked. The PCV valve change
others have suggested sounds like a good idea to me.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

True, there's definitely too much "dirt" in my engine. However, the reason for all the dirt
build-up is suspect since I've been using mobel-1 since the car was new and it's always been
dealer maintained. The flush sounds like a good idea, but i'm somewhat reluctant to put
anything other then mobel-1 into my engine. I'm probably going to increase the oil change
intervals and hope that'll clear up the problem.

Pars

 

You know, just today my brother complained to me about how he saw some
sediment in the bottom of his Mobil 1 jugs.

 

Is that the same brother that can pull a rabbit out of his hat?

Pars

 

I dunno, I never saw him try

 

Pars, I share your mistrust of engine flushes out there. A couple are
better than most. Auto-RX is a great ester based one which is also a
great lubricant booster. Schaeffer Nuetra 131 is cheaper, also ester
based, but I'm not sure it is as effective. With both products, you
add about 1oz. per quart of oil and run for a few hundred miles before
draining.

My guess is they didn't wipe off the dipstick ... so what you are
seeing is the residue left over from the old oil. Either that or they
didn't change the oil filter and you saw fresh oil with a healthy does
of very contaminated oil mixing with it. That stuff might have gotten
through the bypass valve upon start-up.

Mobil 1 has a decent amount of ester in it. Your motor should be very
clean inside as long as you didn't go much over 5,000 miles between
oil & filter changes.

--- Bror Jace

 

That'd be my plan in your situation. I wouldn't trust my old seals to a
flush solvent - rear seals cost big $$.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Hey Bror,
Cleaning the dipstick before checking the oil level is burnt into my
brains. My first job was as gas attendant at a full serve station and
the nazi's that owned the gas bar wanted their over priced oil sold. I'm
also guessing that the oil filer had not been changed.

To add to matters, I was somewhat suspicious when I provided them with
3.5 L of oil and they gave me back 1/2 Litre. My Hatch takes only 3.5L
of oil and I usually take out 1/2 litre from the 4l jug before giving it
in. So, they should have returned and empty jug instead of one with a
1/2 litre in it. Considering that the oil level was a little above full
(I checked the oil on an even grade), I don't understand where the 1/2
Litre came from. I hope the bastards aren't running off with my mobel-1.

Pars

 

yet another reason to do it yourself.

 

How new does the oil filter look? Bet they didn't bother to change it.

 

I've been comparing the quality of my engine oil with my wife's car the other
day. We both have the same 106hp engine and had our oil change on the same day
at the same dealership. Anyways, the quality of oil between the two cars were
similar (which was not the case immediately after said oil change). I'm still
going to have my oil change this weekend (if I get a chance), but I'm less
inclined to think that the dealership short changed me on the oil filter since
the oil does not seem as bad as I initially made it out to be.

Pars