oil change

Ok, I get an oil change every 3000 miles like most people but the other day
I was looking at the engine and I was surprised to see this warning telling
me that they recommend to change the oil every 12.000km (7500 miles)...
What's up with that? Is everybody changing their oil way too often?

RAT

 

I just changed mine tonight after about 7,500 miles, and the oil was quite
dirty (brown, almost black).

When I used to change every 3,000, the oil didn't look very dirty at all.

Probably a good bet would be around 5,000.

 

Note: Below I am speaking only of non-synthetic oil.

The issue you raise is much debated on the auto newsgroups. My impression is
most folks who have experience with cars tend to think that 3000 miles is too
often for most drivers. Others will say their car lasted over 250k miles, and
it's all because they changed the oil every 3k miles.

Most or all Honda owner's manuals say for "normal" driving conditions change the
oil at 7500 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first. The manuals say to follow
the "severe" schedule, changing the oil every 3750 miles, only if you drive in
one or more of these conditions most of the time:

Trips of less than 5 miles (less than 10 in freezing weather)
Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
Muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads

(I copied this last part almost verbatim from the American Honda site.)

Or you'll see slight variations on this, like those at the British site
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/CivicManual/pdf/4-4.pdf (Make sure you read both
pages, especially the fine print re oil changes under severe duty.)

It's a frequently discussed topic here. I haven't seen a whole lot of science on
the subject, though anecdotal evidence counts for something to me. I also
personally thought Consumer Reports article (July, 1996) on this several years
ago was somewhat helpful. See an excerpt from the CR article I posted at
http://tinyurl.com/3gwxs .

A few years ago I myself ceased changing my 1991 Civic's oil about every 3k
miles. I now change it about every 6 months or 5k miles, whichever comes first.

I'm sure others will comment further and also on how using synthetic oil may
change your habits.

 

Let me ask for an opinion on my own somewhat unusual circumstance.

I don't like to drive, and put on about 5K per year. I've always changed
every 5K, which is thus about once per year. When I sold the 85 Camry to
purchase the Element last year, it had 91K miles on it.

The Element will be a year old in August, and has about 4800 miles right now.
I was going to have them (as they gave me a free oil change coupon) do it at
5K.

Does this 5K schedule seem reasonable in view of the limited mileage,
despite Honda's 7500 recommendation, or should I do it, say, every six months
despite that being well under 3K miles?

Art (bicyclist, not a driver)

Art
Temporary usercode - to be deleted when spam starts. Use MyBrainHurts at this ISP to reach me

 

like most people that...

a) dont read their owners manual
b) take jiffy lube ads as gospel

i change at 7500, but i use mobil1 and a honda filter. mostly freeway
driving, non rush hour periods.

 

either way... makes no big diff. i think the first change is supposed to
be at 7500, because they use special (supposedly) break-in oil.

5000 is easy to remember, and you arent going to do any damage.

 

Yeah, I do like 2000 miles a month, mostly freeway, I'll slow down! (on oil
changes of course)

 

I understand the six month rule derives from the reality that oil absorbs
moisture (among other things) over time, even if it's just sitting.

In this vein, some car storage web sites say to change the oil, even if the car
has not been driven at all, after six months of storage. E.g.
http://www.motorcarsltd.com/technician-tips/outofstorage.htm . OTOH, other
storage sites do not say this. If it were that important, one would think they
would.

Given that water is a combustion product, it seems to me that a car that is run
regularly over six months will have oil that has absorbed even more water than a
car that has merely been sitting.

So barring other arguments, I think I'd come down on the side of doing the oil
changes every six months, even with very low mileage.

I'm sure others will offer further reasoned opinions or useful experience on the
matter...

 

it's interesting to see that old n.y. taxi thing come up again. truth
is, the majority of wear /does/ occur on cold start, and truth is, n.y.
taxis run pretty much 24/7 - there are no owner operators afaik.

also, it's interesting that despite the significant advances in
lubricant technology since the 50's, people still talk of the 3000 mile
change that was necessary back then! modern multiweight dino oils, with
highly stable dispersant, detergent & antioxidant [among many other]
properties are vastly different to the simple gummy acid-prone stuff
used back then.

some further things to think about:

1. on the taxi 60k mile test, the wear definitions are not shared with
us. /any/ engine is going to be well within manufacturer wear
tolerances by 60k in this day & age. if manufacturer tolerance was the
definition used, it's a not going to prove a thing.

2. regarding cold starts, one reason this is where most wear occurs is
because engines run very rich when cold, often with fuel condensing on
the cylinder walls. this dilutes the oil film with predicable results.
another reason is circulation properties of cold oil. check in at
your local fire station and see the engines connected up to electrical
pre-heaters. this prevents excess wear from repeatedly having to go
from cold to full throttle with insufficient warm-up.

3. related to 2 is the effect of combustion technology. modern
gasolines burn cleaner and modern electronically managed engines burn
cleaner. both lead to lower combustion product loads in the lubricant.
this is particularly relevant for a taxi engine that is almost always
at full operating temperature - it's rarely in over-rich combustion
mode. and over-rich combustion is a /big/ deal. some vehicles that run
on c.n.g. have oil change intervals as long as 50k miles [yep!] because
their cold start modes and combustion product loads do not foul the lube
as quickly.

so, what is the "safe" service interval? what it says in the book! and
if you want to be really sure, send oil samples for analysis.

 

I think that's as much of a function of getting a diesel engine to start
quickly.
It's the taxpayers money. If the engine wears out, they probably get a new
fire truck!

 

Doesn't the warranty say "or every 6 months"?

 

When someone produces a trial which at least attempts to do what CR attempted,
then I'll pay attention to such statements.

In other words, got anything better?

This is believable.

I don't think this is the truth. If it is, you can find a citation for it.

Fewer taxis are needed at night, for one. The city does regulate how many taxi
licenses are issued, for another.

Also, there are owner-drivers. In addition, taxi drivers may lease their vehicle
from the owner.

See http://www.schallerconsult.com/taxi/taxi2.htm#primary

Of course it proves something: Changing oil every 3k miles in these taxi cabs
appears to be a waste of money, as no differences were detected when the oil
was changed every 6k miles.

Also, you're neglecting that this is 60k miles of city driving. That's severe
duty.

You can claim CR didn't use appropriate tolerance tests, but you haven't
produced a shred of proof of this.

I am not claiming CR is always right. I am saying simply that the article is
"somewhat helpful."

It does, after all, support your own contention that a 7500 mile interval for
normal driving is fine.

 

My UK spec CR-V for normal use should have an oil change at 10,000 miles
(yes miles) or 10 Months - UK CR-V is a 2.0l engine, yours (USA) is 2.4l
so not same engine.

 

Doesn't the warranty say "or every 6 months"?[/QUOTE]

it recommends every 6 months. it also recommends using genuine honda
fluids and parts. if the thing spins a bearing before the warranty is
over, theyll take care of it. but it wont unless theres a defect in the
engine. changing the oil every 5k is not abuse.

 

anyone know how often cop cars get their oil changed, and what brand
oil/filter they use?

THAT would be severe duty, because those cops tend to beat the shit out
of the cars.

saw one (LA sheriff dept)the other day sitting in his police
interceptor, with the door open... know how he shut the door?

he kicked it *outward*, then it bounced back and shut.

damn! try THAT in your civic or accord

 

I actually go a little more extreme. On my '01 Accord EX-V6 I change the
oil when the service engine light indicates by staying on for about 15 to 30
seconds (never actually sat and timed it) after vehicle start. Happens at
around 7000 miles.

Bought car new in June of '01, it'll roll 100,000 miles this week or next
(at 98,600 or so right now). My commute to my current office is 78 miles
each way, of high-speed interstate.

This is my first new Honda. Prior to this was my (then girlfriend) now wife
'87 Accord LX-I bought used in '90 and a '88 Integra bought used in '97
(same week I bought a new full size Chevy P/U, bought Integra as a commuter
car).

Finally decided just this month I'm going to keep the Honda till I run it
into the ground (or I'm finally so sick of it I need a new car) where I've
always gotten a new vehicle when current vehicle is almost to 100K. I might
update some of the electronics inside to make the interior "New to Me".
Only part of a vehicle I have ever really cared what it looked like was the
dash. Don't spend much time looking at the outside so that styling isn't
much of a concern to me.

 

And thats appropriate for YOU.

For those stuck in stop-n-go rush hour traffic, the twenty bucks for
a oild change every 3K is cheap insurance.

--

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
"Bubba got a blowjob, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim
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VOTE HIM OUT! November 4, 2004

 

WRONG.

They still exist, although the GREEDY and the GOVERNMENT try to
stamp them out of existance every day.



--

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
"Bubba got a blowjob, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms
George "The AWOL President" Bush: http://www.awolbush.com/
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm


VOTE HIM OUT! November 4, 2004

 

Neanderthal behaviour is not recommended.

--

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
"Bubba got a blowjob, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms
George "The AWOL President" Bush: http://www.awolbush.com/
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm


VOTE HIM OUT! November 4, 2004

 

Or if you live anywhere in Canada, according to my '03 Honda owners manual!

I always follow the severe schedule for our vehicles.

John