Oil Drain Crush Washer

Yup, though it's often a dealer, Firestone, etc. mantra, too.

Or even 10k miles with synthetic.

Sorry. Shoulda indicated I do not use synthetic oil in my 91 Civic.

 

In the UK recent Renaults have an oil change schedule at 6k and then not
till 36k miles. My BMW diesel is around 15K and with synthetic could last
till 40k (said an agent). 10k to 12k schedule is the norm for most cars and
3k could be seen as paranoid?

 

I think the problem is posters (including myself) here haven't been consistently
stating whether:

(1) they use synthetic oil. I agree (from general reading) the synthetic oil
change frequency should be closer to 10k (but don't quote me as an authority on
this).

(2) their car sees severe service, in which case 3k NON-synthetic oil changes
IMO are appropriate

(3) their reasons for 3k non-synthetic oil changes. That is, as another poster
said, people buy into the dealer, Jiffy Lube, etc. counsel to change the oil
this often, as the cost of this "insurance" is low. (Never mind the effects on
the environment of the extra oil disposal; the loss of time getting the oil
changed; and that the dealer and Jiffy Lube et al. are out to make a buck any
way they can.)

I don't use synthetic oil because (1) I feel the jury is still out as to whether
it is better for the engine or not; and (2) I don't mind my 5k (or 6 month)
oil changes as it gets me under the car and the hood inspecting the CV boots,
etc.

I should add that I also live in/near the dustbowl of the U.S. This too argues
for leaning towards "severe service" oil change frequency.

With synthetic oil, right?

I doubt that's the norm among U.S. car owners who use NON-synthetic oil.

I wouldn't go that far except in jest.

Maybe 3k for a car seeing non severe service is a bit over-cautious.

So many people know nothing about cars and just follow directions. In their
minds more "couldn't hurt." (Though that's probably partly an idiot American
thing, too.) Somehow 3k is "cheaper" than researching the matter carefully,
whick arguably would require people to become technicians, engineers,
statisticians, or something else in which they have no interest.

 

It could be oil or driving habit. The Mobil 1 in my Odyssey is still amber at
7500 miles. On the other hand, it's black in my Civic at 10 kmiles. Since I
drive the Civic worst than severe, I couldn't keep the oil amber that long.

 

I read that article too~!!! However it is totally misleading.One: the taxi
cabs were never shutoff except for maintenance, so that they were running at
optimum temps 99% of the time

In the real world .? commuting and short trip driving especially in the
colder climates/(severe service ) the engines are started twice a day under
extreme cold conditions in the winter and milder cold start conditions in
the summer.

Now we know that 99% of engine wear occurs on cold startup? so that the taxi
cab test did not really reflect the true day to day use of a motor vehicle
by the public, there fore it is flawed in this respect.
ed/ontario

 

mandates more frequent oil changes .

However , remember, the oil doesnt wear out ? It becomes contanminated with
combustion by products like water and acid, therefore city driving dictates
more frequent oil changes , as prolonged highway driving will burn off the
contaminants, thereby reducing the need for more frequent oil changes.

However one has to relaize that the oil doesnt wear ouit but the additives
do , and this is another reason for more frequent changes under "severe
service" as outlined in your owners manual.
ed/ontario

 

I think you are mistaken. These were bona fide New York City taxi cabs subjected
to the same driving conditions as NYC taxi cabs. I copied the key page of the CR
article (July, 1996, page 13). From it:
-----
"To determine whether frequent oil changes really help, we changed the oil in
three cabs every 3000 miles, using Pennzoil 10W-30. After 60,000 miles, we
compared these engines with the engines from our base tests of the same oil,
changed every 6000 miles. We saw no meaninful differences."
....
"Even in the severe driving conditions that a New York City taxi endures, we
noted no benefit from changing the oil every 3000 miles rather than every 6000
miles."
-----

I disagree. See above.

 

My understanding is that manufacturer reps visit regularly for all the
reasons I
gave before.

We disagree.[/QUOTE]

We disagree.

My favorite Honda dealership has the best mechanic that you'll ever
find. They used to have the 2 best mechanics, but one of them left to
go work for Honda.

Anyway, this very dealership also has the worst mechanic you'll ever
find. By worst, I mean biggest crook. I guarantee you that any car
that he sees immediately needs $400 worth of stuff. That's just what he
does. For some reason, management lets him get away with it. We don't
really know why. But I wouldn't let him put my kid's tricycle together.

He constantly rips off the customers, but as long as they're paying
customers Honda doesn't care. This has been going on for years.

 

Oh I agree Honda cares not at all about dealer service department rip-offs like
what you describe above. It would not surprise me if Honda even approved of this
or looked the other way at it, as it tends to maintain the car better and ensure
its reputation. It also helps sell Honda parts.

Repeat warranty work is more of what I had in mind when it came to Honda
watching over the service. Honda naturally doesn't want to pay for the same job
twice when it should have been done right the first time.

Seems like you think I'm praising Honda for having reps around. I didn't mean
any of what I said as praise. Both Honda and the dealership are out to make a
buck. It's just that, yes, Honda knows customer satisfaction is a factor about
which it needs to have at least a little concern in order to sell cars.

 

Absolutely agreed here. When it comes out of Honda's pocket, they're
all over it.

Anything non-warranty, though, is strictly the business of the
independent dealership's service department.

It comes down to this: find a mechanic, a person, that you like and
trust to do the work properly and efficiently and without excessive
cost. Then have him use factory parts.

Problem solved.

If my mechanic ever left that Honda dealership, I'd follow him to
wherever. If it's a non-Honda dealership, I'd have him do the work on
the side.

I don't know what I'd do if he left town.

 

I remember that issue.
They did another study a few years back; not on taxicabs, I can't
remember what cars they were using. At that time, they found
significant differences between the oils, with Valvoline Turbo (do
they even make that anymore?) and Castrol being the best. I don't even
remember if Mobil One was on the market yet.

 

I think (the first? synthetic oil) Mobil 1 has been around a couple of decades
or more.

Yet, for some reason synthetic oils don't seem to have become really popular
until the last decade or so. Could be wrong about this. Or maybe it's just the
last decade that has seen a few different manufacturers sell synthetic oil.

The one page I have from the 1996 CR article talks about Mobil 1 but it seems CR
only evaluated a few engines with it.

 

At least that - I know that the synthetics first started to appear >30
years but initially it was just a scam where "specialist" companies tried
to sell jet engine lubricant, with slightly differebt additives as a kind
of super auto-engine oil... it wasn't of course.

There have been some spectacular failures of synthetic oil over the years -
most often do with incompatibility with seal rubbers. The most recent one
I know about was the Mobil AV1 for aero-piston engines - this was not a
seal problem but had to do with the oil's inability to carry particulates
back to the filter and the literal destruction of camshaft lobes. Mobil
did a cover up job on it by offering mostly just engine overhauls in
exchange for silence and AV1 was withdrawn from the market. There were
some really damning articles about the whole affair on many avionics sites
but they've mostly disappeared too.{

It's only in the past 4 years or so that I've gotten the confidence to try
synthetic - Mobil1 - in my cars. I'm still not sold on it but it's kinda
an experiment to see for myself if it offers any benefits... or risks.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

I know a very good, very popular Subaru dealer mechanic who (on orders from
Subaru or from his own experience?) says synthetic oil will destroy Subaru
seals. Not sure exactly which seals, but I did witness from afar cars that came
in with serious leaks. Typically it turned out the owner had put synthetic oil
into the engine.

Same idea as what you say above, I guess?

On this one for my 91 Civic I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" frame
of mind. Plus, the cost per 100k miles doesn't necessarily beat the cost using
non-synthetic.

 

Hmm....
my previous car (a Mitsubishi 2.6) I switched to Mobil 1 early on. The
valve cover leaked and nothing would stop it, but I stuck with it. I
ended up replacing the head after like 60K, so I got a look inside,
cylinder wear was nil. On the other hand, the new camshaft I put in
with the head (and new followers, etc.) completely chewed off a lobe
within like 10K miles. And the timing chain was so ragged by 100K or
so I couldn't time the ignition reliably so I replaced it. Good
results? Bad results? Or just independent of the oil?
Also had bad results with Mobil 1 in Honda Civic trannies, in terms of
bearing wear. I'm given to understand that that's not a common problem
with Civic transmissions. Again, don't know if the oil is responsible
or not. The trans certainly shifted a lot smoother on cold days with
the Mobil 1.

 

The reason is cost. Mobil-1 is around $5/quart. Standard dino oil is
around $1/quart.

John

 

There were warnings not to use synthetic oil in the transmissions of that
generation of Civic. Not for bearing wear, but more because the synchros
wouldn't work right with it.

How often did you change the oil in the Mitsubishi? Filter? Was the valve
cover already leaking before you switched it over?

 

Given that oil change frequency is about halved (every 10k miles vs. every 5k
miles) with Mobil 1; that the (high quality IMO) Pennzoil I buy is typically
over $1.50/quart even at Wal-Mart these days (vs. under $4 a quart for Mobil 1
at Wal-Mart when bought in a 5-quart bottle); and that to some people doing
fewer oil changes is worth a few more dollars; I think the two options are
competitive cost-wise.

Also, newsgroup feedback indicates that, yes, synthetic oil is pretty popular.
Why if not for the above?

I guess the only other explanation is people think Mobil 1 is better for the
engine. It may be. I don't know. When there's more data available on how well
synthetic oil does in 1991 Civics, I might give it a shot.

 

Actually, I'd heard suggestions that there wouldn't be enough friction
for the synchros to shift smoothly, but they worked really great. No
wear on the teeth either, as is usual with the second gear synchro on
that trans. I was wondering about incompatible chemical wear between
the bearing and the oil? Who knows.

OIl & filter every 3 months, just because it was easier to do it on a
fixed schedule. The valve cover wasn't leaking before. I took it off
and put it back with silicone, I replaced it, nothing helped. Had to
take it off every year or two to adjust the valves, got to experiment
with it a lot.

The Honda engine is on Mobil 1 as well, btw, no leaks.

 

Mista Bone has warned of input shaft (I think) (plastic) bearing cage just
wearing/dissolving away with Redline oil - dunno if it could be related.
IMO no reason not to use the Honda MTF here.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??