OT Cheney - Cutting Gas Tax Stupid

Too much blather, but if you want the government to build roads, then
it needs to tax. What I don't want my government doing is lying about
the need to go to war, which is what the republicans did.

 

They did go down until 9/11...

 

You are a moron if you think this is how the world works and that the
"state" is a nanny.....

Penalized? Screw you you gestapo commie

That is Communism, not capitalism.

So Government control....

And put millions out of work the next day......

And burn more coal than oil and pollute the environment more than with
gas....

You "greenies" are the ones that have prevented that for 30 years in the
USA.

Are you gonna buy the land to lay the tracks????

BWAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAA

FDR (DEMO-CRAT) got us in WWII....We didn't pay that debt off until 1978....

GO LEARN BEFORE YOU SPEAK

 

I use 365 gallons a month, just for work and groceries...

You are a friggin Communist Tyrant

 

It's too complex to do what you propose, and too revenue negative. How
are you going to account for the different cost of living in different
areas of the country?

The federal gasoline tax and the tax credits are already in place. Just
increase the gasoline tax, and then give the money back to those that
are not wasteful, so it's no net loss to them. You don't need any big
bureaucracy to manage it.

You have to be careful when you change tax policy to avoid unintended
consequences.

Ross Perot was a nut case, but the one thing he proposed that made sense
was the increased gasoline tax.

 

In fact, tax policy is widely used to shape social policy.

 

What I propose is even more simpler than what you propose, and how can
it be revenue-negative when it won't refund more than it takes in?

I'm not, and why should I? After all, do the personal deduction on
income tax and the earned income credit vary according to local costs
of living?

That's why I don't want the tax to be too high and result in too much
of a switch to undesirable alternatives, like alcohol, diesel, or
electricity, the last two being bad mostly because a quick switchover
could put them in short supply..

How does your gas tax/income tax refund plan avoid unintended
consequences?

That's true, and car makers have long preferred that over higher fuel
economy standards, but the country has been pathologically against all
taxes since the 1980s, even when lower taxes result in higher costs
(deficits, bad roads causing car damage and travel delays). Even
conservative George Will said the US was undertaxed.

 

Indeed. Too many parrot the cliché-du-decade instead of
looking deeper into what is necessary so we all do not live
like savages, waiting always for the next murderous tribal
raid. Republicans and Democrats have, liberals and cons,
have far less that divides them than they have in common.

 

IIRC WW2 went from Sept 1, 1939 to Sept 2, 1945... at least for the
rest of the world. In the US it started on Dec 7, 1941 when the Japs
bomber Pearl Harbor. (How much did that cost?)

If the US had entered the war before that, the Japs wouldn't have been
able to bomb Pearl. Also don't forget the countless billions in aid
the US sent to Europe for rebuilding... if the US had entered the war
with the rest of the world, that may have been reduced as well.

 

Before one decides to let the government do MORE to save us from ourselves
one should consider the answers to several questions regarding what the
government has already done?

What was the price of a gallon of gas before the Clean Air act?

What was the price of a gallon of gas before the CAFE?

What was the amount of the FEDERAL & STATE fuel taxes before CAFE?

Why are federal and state roads and bridges deteriorating?

How many refineries were built since the Clean Air act?

How many refineries have been shut down since the Clean Air act?

Why has the cost of diesel fuel gone up $1.60 more than the increase in the
price of gasoline?

What was the average BTU content of a gallon of gas before enthanol was
mandated?

What has happened to the cost of corn, wheat, oats and soy beans since
ethanol was mandated?

Why not require a CAFE of 100 MPG?

What will happen to the cost of everything we buy it the Congress enacts a
carbon tax

Why does one think the government can do anything to help the average
working man in regard to fuel costs?

Why do we keep electing the same nuts?

 

You can see the gasoline price history, in today's dollars, at
"http://zfacts.com/p/35.html". The Clean Air Act took effect in 1990.

There was no effect on gasoline prices due to the Clean Air Act. The
price came down steadily until W was elected president.

There was no effect on gasoline prices due to the CAFE standard.

You can see the gasoline price history, in today's dollars, at
"http://zfacts.com/p/35.html". The CAFE standard started in 1975.

There was no effect on gasoline prices due to the CAFE standard. The
price came down steadily until W was elected president.

The federal tax rate was 4 cents a gallon both before and after CAFE.
Under Reagan, it went up to 9 cents a gallon, eight years after CAFE was
instituted. There are 50 states, so you can go check those.

Spending money in Iraq rather than on our own infrastructure.

Zero, but it had nothing to do with the Clean Air Act. It was an effort
on the part of the oil companies to run fewer refineries at higher
capacity, and to reduce refining capacity in order to drive up prices.

A lot, but it had nothing to do with the Clean Air Act. It was an effort
on the part of the oil companies to run fewer refineries at higher
capacity, and to reduce refining capacity in order to drive up prices.

Because people will pay $1.60 more for diesel so the oil companies can
charge $1.60 more. Diesel costs less to refine than gasoline, even with
the requirement for low sulfur diesel.

124,000.

A gallon of Ethanol has 77,000 BTU, so a 10% Ethanol mixture would have
119,300 BTU.

It uses far more BTU to make Ethanol than you get back from burning it.
Only with government subsidies to artificially lower the price is
Ethanol viable. Thank your friend's at Archers Daniel Midland, and their
Republican pals in Congress for this boondoggle.

Went up. Thank your friend's at Archers Daniel Midland, and their
Republican pals in Congress for this boondoggle.

100 MPG is impractical with current technology.

Unknown. Increased costs cannot always be passed along to the consumer,
because the consumer can switch to other products, or in some case to no
product at all.

Because some governments understand the law of supply and demand, and
enact policies to drive down demand, which in turns lowers prices.

We don't. W was elected only once. In 2000 Gore was elected, Bush was
selected.

 

Now that you have listed your answers, do a search for the correct answers
and get back to us LOL

 

You don't like the correct answers because they conflict with your
political beliefs, beliefs that are not based on any reality.

You asked a bunch of loaded questions, unaware of the actual answers,
trying to make a political statement that supported your neo-con
political philosophy, which apparently you gleaned from right wing radio
talk show hosts like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. You should be aware
that these guys are entertainers. They say what they say not because
they actually believe any of it, but because it brings in advertising
dollars to their syndicated shows.

When your ignorance was demonstrated for all to see, the only comeback
you could come up with was a "LOL." Very weak. No wonder or country is
in such dire straits. The educational system has produced a generation
of people like you that have no understanding of economics, foreign
policy, or energy, but that just want to blame everything on someone else.

 

As with your answers to the questions you are 180 degrees of out line in you
assment of me LOL

 

Horseshit. Look at the chart again. Bush wasn't President in 1999.

 

What did Clinton spend on infrastructure..? Surely, that huge "budget
surplus" was spent on the betterment of American society..?

Clue: Life didn't begin with Bush's first term.

You're welcome...

 

And you povided a bunch of loaded answers...

 

Yes - we are all very familiar with revisionist history.

You might find this video of none other than Al Gore citing actual
terrorist acts committed by Saddam, his documented use of WMD's,
including pursuit of nukes, and berating Bush 1 for doing nothing about it:
http://scripturn.com/video_9JE48XHKG64.html

Here's another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h6gehCPvpk

That's just *one* guy. We don't need to cite all the statements ever
made by all the other hypocritical Democrats, including Clinton, do we?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Last week, my family took a vacation to New England from Virginia.
Drove a total of 2100 miles. Every time we transitioned from areas
without gasohol to ones with gasohol, you could watch the mileage
computer average drop steadily with each fillup. It crept up slowly
(due to the high number of miles in the calculated average) after
returning to non-gasohol areas.

Many of our jobs will go to third world countries who won't have the
ball and chain carbon tax to deal with and they will pollute worse than
we ever did, so the environment will be harmed more, and everyone will
suffer way more than if the government had not acted so stupidly. The
exact opposite from what is dishonestly claimed to be the intention will
have been achieved.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Umm - no. Local and state governments routinely take federal money
specifically provided for maintenance and upgrades of critical
infrastructure and divert them to touchy-feely projects (New Orleans
levies are a *perfect* example of that).

Your credibility just flew out the window with that comment.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')