Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets

The point is, Honda must use the EPA figures. They have no choice.

Consumer Reports knows this. Their test was designed to be extreme and
it provides valuable information about just how far off the EPA
figures can be.

The reporter who used the CR information seemed to be trying to make a
case that Honda was concealing information about real-world fuel
consumption by using the EPA estimates as part of a marketing
strategy. I do not think that case can be made. Honda may be pleased
the EPA estimates are so high for their cars, but pleased or not, they
are required by law to report them.

I'm done.

Elliot Richmond
Itinerant Curmudgeon

 

Not at all. For example, creeping in stop and go traffic (in any car) may
get you less than 1/4 the EPA rating for city driving. A while back I saw a
link to an article about early Prius cars being used in city police
applications. The patrolmen were incensed that the cars reported thay got as
little as 15 mpg, but the article pointed out they were run all day and were
racking up less than 10 miles. When on traffic duty there was a whole lot of
idle time. It's likely their previous cars were getting less than 5 mpg but
they never noticed.

Assuming the industry swings toward more efficient cars the gap will only
widen. Only part of the fuel we burn goes toward getting us from one place
to another, and if the remainder stays the same while the genuine mpg
improves the anguished cries will get louder. After all, if your house were
run on gasoline instead of electricity and natural gas, how many mpg would
your house get? Zero.

Mike

 

Could you post 'but 46%' a few more times, i think the really slow,
stupid people at the back haven't yet realised you've read thew news
story and haven't actually understood what its NOT saying.

EPa - government mandated test whos results MUST be reported. no
choice, no options int he matter, and the test isn't done by honda. So
i can hardly see how the car company is covering anything up.
Government does the test, government makes them report the results, I
don't see anything there a person with the intelect of a cabbage
couldn't follow there, so maybe you'll understandnow

Secondly, whilst the EPA test methods are well known, I've not seen
the conditions for the CR test reported. Sooo, lets say they've got a
500lb driver, carrying 3 paving stones in the back, its a manual car
(we'll be nice) and he revs the bollocks off it at lights, lots of
wheel spin as he drops the clutch, uses the accelerator, right up
until the last second, then slams ont he brakes, ravving the engine as
he does so in neutral. , oh, and he keeps it irevving as pfast as
possible. all this on underinflated tyres, and in a busy tailback of
stop+go traffic. Thats the CR test, and to be honest, 26mpg is f-ing
amazing in those conditions.

Of course, to some people, trying to explain things like this is like
trying to explain to a brick what orange smells like. I have a feling
you're one of those.

 

Large variables. It is perfectly possible for a car to get zero mpg (yours
does it at every stop light).

Mike

 

It's average mpg over the last 2210 miles of driving which includes both
city and highway driving (probably a 35%/65% split between the two).

Eric

 

I had 2 CRX HF's. The 1st was bought new & averaged 50MPG over 50,000
Miles.
The 2nd was used, & averaged 45MPG.

Currently driving a 94 Civic VX. 43+MPG over 23,000 Miles. All cars
were equipped
with A/C & Cruise control.

 

First, quit top posting.

Second.

Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
Impreza auto 16 23 -32


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
Impreza auto 30 28 + 7

So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

Conclusion:

So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.

OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

 

And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

 

IN and of itself, nothing. But in some areas it can be hard to find and is
currently more expensive than "regular". So if you can get better mileage
with "regular", all the better.

 

While I'd like to think CR wouldn't be THAT deliberate, I do wonder just
how the cars are being driven, and if CR just _might_ have a small
incentive to produce 'shocking' numbers.

FWIW, I've had no trouble exceeding the EPA ratings for both city and
freewy mileage with my last 3 cars. IMO, CR must be driving very
agressively, perhaps not so differently from the manner you describe.

-Greg

 

Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
Chicago city bus.

 

what kind of TDI?

If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
smoking.

 

I'm not an expert on VWs, but the one I saw last week was a VW car,
maybe a Jetta. Don't know what year.

I also met a guy a couple years ago who had Beetle turbo-diesels for
himself and his girlfriend. He said that about every 25K the cars
would start slowing down and he would know it was time to clean the
carbon out. This entailed extensive disassembly of the intake system
and special tools he had made to clean the various parts. He said he
could do it in about six hours now and I saw his three-ring binder of
photos and notes documenting the process. The amount of carbon that
came out was frightening but at last it wasn't floating around in the
atmosphere.

He said that there were two grades of diesel, the better grade being
hard to find (and no doubt more expensive.) The closest station was
about 20 miles away which was near where his girlfriend worked but no
use to him normally. He indicated that this better fuel helped, but
didn't solve the problem.

The new diesels are generally cleaner than the old ones, but I think
they still produce a lot of particles, especially if they are
older/less well maintained.

 

whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
)

 

Well, probably no worse than any other diesel city bus, but what comes
out of their tail pipes sometimes (often) is pretty nasty.

 

There are lots of changes in the works as the diesel engine companies work
through their emissions credits for 05 and 06.

07 engines from all heavy engine manufacturers will be running much hotter
and will have much more extensive particulate filters.

However, its still up to the end user (ie the Transit authorities) to make
sure their vehicles are maintained properly.... and lots of our california
customers have gone to CNG (compressed Natural gas) engines, which have 0
emissions.

t