poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?

Even though they covered the cost to avoid bad publicity, the real reason
was owner neglect.

 

They identified a design problem with the baffles in the valve cover as
being the trigger for a more complex situation involving too much heat
difference between the lower levels of the lubrication system and the oil
under the valve cover. IIRC a redesigned valve cover was the fix. Toyota
maintained to the last that the problem was never documented in any engine
that strictly followed their oil change schedule, leading to speculation
that the margin of tolerance for oil changes was oo close for the V6.

Unfortunately, I didn't save the link on that.

Mike

 

They identified a design problem with the baffles in the valve cover as
being the trigger for a more complex situation involving too much heat
difference between the lower levels of the lubrication system and the oil
under the valve cover. IIRC a redesigned valve cover was the fix. Toyota
maintained to the last that the problem was never documented in any engine
that strictly followed their oil change schedule, leading to speculation
that the margin of tolerance for oil changes was oo close for the V6.

Unfortunately, I didn't save the link on that.

Mike

 

I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was crap.
I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and
have had no problems with any of them.

 

I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was crap.
I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and
have had no problems with any of them.

 

I have changed three older (130K miles to 230K miles) cars over to synthetic
in the last few years and haven't had leaks on any of them, but three cars
isn't what I'd call a lot of data, either.

Mike

 

I have changed three older (130K miles to 230K miles) cars over to synthetic
in the last few years and haven't had leaks on any of them, but three cars
isn't what I'd call a lot of data, either.

Mike

 

My motorhead brother says Havoline tends to leave carbon deposits, so I
never even gave it a chance to have its way with me. (Although I have to
wonder if somebody who would shoehorn a 454 into a Vega is the best guide!)

I have used Pennzoil, Valvoline and Quaker State pretty much interchangably
over the last three decades. I've only been using Mobil One for a few years,
but so far I'm happy.

Mike

 

My motorhead brother says Havoline tends to leave carbon deposits, so I
never even gave it a chance to have its way with me. (Although I have to
wonder if somebody who would shoehorn a 454 into a Vega is the best guide!)

I have used Pennzoil, Valvoline and Quaker State pretty much interchangably
over the last three decades. I've only been using Mobil One for a few years,
but so far I'm happy.

Mike

 

i thought i had a leak but it turned out that i did spill more oil over the
side than i though i did which explained where all the oil came from ( that
is, i washed it off and it has not returned )
so i must be burning that missing oil which is about the same as yours 1/2
qt between changes

Some web site i was reading claimed that synthetics tend to run a bit
thinner than dino at high temps and that might be cause of oil leaks at the
seals. But i do not know how much to believe that when the weight rating of
the oil 5w30 (etc) should indicate the oil thinning behavior within some
margin so that choosing the proper oil weight would make that a non-issue

then ther are the claims that all the additives to the dino oil (seal
conditioners , viscosity improver etc) are what keep the seals healthy in
the dino oil.

thanks for feedback
robb

 

i thought i had a leak but it turned out that i did spill more oil over the
side than i though i did which explained where all the oil came from ( that
is, i washed it off and it has not returned )
so i must be burning that missing oil which is about the same as yours 1/2
qt between changes

Some web site i was reading claimed that synthetics tend to run a bit
thinner than dino at high temps and that might be cause of oil leaks at the
seals. But i do not know how much to believe that when the weight rating of
the oil 5w30 (etc) should indicate the oil thinning behavior within some
margin so that choosing the proper oil weight would make that a non-issue

then ther are the claims that all the additives to the dino oil (seal
conditioners , viscosity improver etc) are what keep the seals healthy in
the dino oil.

thanks for feedback
robb

 

I would too.

The best i can figure from techinical specs is that penzoil scored middle or
so along with oils like Shell and chevron supreme and valvoline all climate
etc

 

I would too.

The best i can figure from techinical specs is that penzoil scored middle or
so along with oils like Shell and chevron supreme and valvoline all climate
etc

 

I believe three "successes" out of three attempts actually
does have a fair amount of statistical significance attached
to it. It's even a little intuitive, IMO, that your little
home study indicates it's probably safe (maybe very safe) to
switch a high mileage car to synthetic.

The amateur (but fairly careful, all things considered)
study to which I refer above appears at
http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~jkrane/cars/synth_survey.html

Summary:
74 cars total
-- Most of the cars studied had less than 100k miles. These
produced two leakers, one easily fixed by proper tightening
of various seal bolts. The second leaker demonstrated a
bizarre single leak at the "fuel pump pivot pin."

-- Clearly the cars with over 100k miles were a minority of
the sample, but not an insignificant one ISTM. They produced
two leakers, both 1975 Porsche 911s. Both began to leak some
20k miles after the switch.

 

I believe three "successes" out of three attempts actually
does have a fair amount of statistical significance attached
to it. It's even a little intuitive, IMO, that your little
home study indicates it's probably safe (maybe very safe) to
switch a high mileage car to synthetic.

The amateur (but fairly careful, all things considered)
study to which I refer above appears at
http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~jkrane/cars/synth_survey.html

Summary:
74 cars total
-- Most of the cars studied had less than 100k miles. These
produced two leakers, one easily fixed by proper tightening
of various seal bolts. The second leaker demonstrated a
bizarre single leak at the "fuel pump pivot pin."

-- Clearly the cars with over 100k miles were a minority of
the sample, but not an insignificant one ISTM. They produced
two leakers, both 1975 Porsche 911s. Both began to leak some
20k miles after the switch.

 

Pennzoil was crap.

I'm sure you know this, but to share my own view: Part of
the beauty of online fora open to the public is that they
denote in total ultimate marketplace of ideas. People can
and do post anything, substantiated or not. When what is
posted seems off-kilter, typically enough people respond
such that a reasonable person can arrive at a conclusion
that is useful.

With rare exceptions, this method of transmitting 'the best
information possible' is, simply, the best. Mathematical
proofs even exist that argue the more diverse a group of
problem solvers, the more likely the best solution will be
found.

Over 20 years ago I knew young men who claimed Quaker State
caused more sludge than most. Maybe he was right--back then.
But I also think there is abundant documentation that oil
formulations have changed dramatically in 20+ years. So I
read reports on today's conventional oils with I hope an
open mind. I'm not going to switch my car from Pennzoil to
something else, but I don't reject anyone else's use of
anything else.

I am not switching to synthetic because I have the time to
do oil changes. My 91 Civic's oil change schedule also
forces me to crawl under the car for half an hour about
every six months and inspect (and clean up a bit) the
exhaust system, CV boots, my oil pan, etc. I think this
semi-annual or so inspection is important on an older car.

I realize that I might very well get better mileage with
synthetic, and it might improve engine longevity, too.

On the third hand, seems like we get plenty of reports here
of Hondas going over 300k miles on conventional oil.

If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a
lot more open to switching to synthetic.

 

Pennzoil was crap.

I'm sure you know this, but to share my own view: Part of
the beauty of online fora open to the public is that they
denote in total ultimate marketplace of ideas. People can
and do post anything, substantiated or not. When what is
posted seems off-kilter, typically enough people respond
such that a reasonable person can arrive at a conclusion
that is useful.

With rare exceptions, this method of transmitting 'the best
information possible' is, simply, the best. Mathematical
proofs even exist that argue the more diverse a group of
problem solvers, the more likely the best solution will be
found.

Over 20 years ago I knew young men who claimed Quaker State
caused more sludge than most. Maybe he was right--back then.
But I also think there is abundant documentation that oil
formulations have changed dramatically in 20+ years. So I
read reports on today's conventional oils with I hope an
open mind. I'm not going to switch my car from Pennzoil to
something else, but I don't reject anyone else's use of
anything else.

I am not switching to synthetic because I have the time to
do oil changes. My 91 Civic's oil change schedule also
forces me to crawl under the car for half an hour about
every six months and inspect (and clean up a bit) the
exhaust system, CV boots, my oil pan, etc. I think this
semi-annual or so inspection is important on an older car.

I realize that I might very well get better mileage with
synthetic, and it might improve engine longevity, too.

On the third hand, seems like we get plenty of reports here
of Hondas going over 300k miles on conventional oil.

If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a
lot more open to switching to synthetic.

 

Uh, if you can't or couldn't tell the difference between Castrol and the
other two brands, it is beyond my capacity to help or educate you.

However, I do expect that Quaker State/Pennzoil may have cleaned up
their act after a lot of bad publicity a few years ago...

JT

 

Uh, if you can't or couldn't tell the difference between Castrol and the
other two brands, it is beyond my capacity to help or educate you.

However, I do expect that Quaker State/Pennzoil may have cleaned up
their act after a lot of bad publicity a few years ago...

JT

 

My 98 DX Hatch has 280,000KM, original PCV valve (everything else under
the hood is still original...except timing belt, spark plug and air
filter). The car's been a regular beater since new and usually kisses
the Redline when in first or 2nd gear.

For the past 3 years, I've extended the oil change interval from
every 5000km to every 15,000km. The car looses about a quart every
3000km (less when not driven aggressively or during winter). Since the
Mobel-1 gets very expensive from constantly topping up (costing
$8/quart), I've since switched to Mobel-1 0w40 (instead of 5w30), in
the hopes that the heavier oil will reduce oil loss. It seems to work.
In my last oil change, I did about 20,000km and only needed 2 quarts
for topping up (normally, it should be twice as much).

The only downfall from having a base engine that's completely
broken-in for aggressive driving, is that upgraded to a more power full
GSR engine is unnecessary. I guess I'll have to content with the
public's assumption that I have something much more powerful under
the hood.

Pars