poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?

It is extremely expensive to recover post-consumer motor oil, just like
it's extremely expensive to recover *anything* post-consumer except
aluminum. That would NOT be a "cheap way" to acquire a base stock. Unless
you ignore the millions it will/would cost in tax monies that are/would be
required to cajole refineries into taking the stuff.

It's the re-refinement that IS suspect, since some re-refining is done
better than others.

 

still the question: is Tech 2000 (walmart Brand) recycled? I don't think
Safety Kleen is in the oil refining business.....

 

well by cheap i mean a recycler probably does not have to pay for the used
oil as in buying crude or derivatives at some cost per barrel and may even
get some incentive or payed for recycling.

i do not know what if any cleansing would be required before the refining
process to remove various contaminants ?

anyways it sounded like an interesting idea, "synthetic mfg from recycling
used oil"

well ok i concur with that point, and i am wondering what is in the walmart
labeled synthetic ?

 

well by cheap i mean a recycler probably does not have to pay for the used
oil as in buying crude or derivatives at some cost per barrel and may even
get some incentive or payed for recycling.

i do not know what if any cleansing would be required before the refining
process to remove various contaminants ?

anyways it sounded like an interesting idea, "synthetic mfg from recycling
used oil"

well ok i concur with that point, and i am wondering what is in the walmart
labeled synthetic ?

 

Date: Mon, Jan 16 2006 3:55 am

It surely is most interesting - to make synthetic from
recycling used oil.

 

Date: Mon, Jan 16 2006 3:55 am

It surely is most interesting - to make synthetic from
recycling used oil.

 

Wal-Mart does not say on their MSDS's. Safety Kleen does not
list that product under any recognizable name. But here are
their motor oil MSDS's:
<http://www.safety-kleen.com/skcda/views/pages/form/MSDSSearch/MSDSSearchResults.jsp?titleparam=MSDS+Search+Results&searchText=motor+oil&submit=Execute+Search>

However, I did find this URL:
http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2004-12-16/goods_ecoholic.php

An excerpt from above:
"However, you can buy re-refined oil, like Tech-2000 ($1.56/litre
at Wal-Mart) or Zellers' Autoprix ($2.27/litre)."

Apparently they are!
<http://www.safetykleen.com/skcda/views/pages/channel/home.do?channel=e748b71d>

 

The cost is in the recovery itself. The trucks, the personnel, the sorting,
the elimination and disposal of contaminants, etc.

Ever wonder what becomes of the tons of toxins removed every year from used
motor oil? I have, too.

Lots and lots. And lots and lots. And lots. Lots more besides. Motor oil
picks up tons of crud, which is one of its jobs. ALL of it has to be
removed before the waste is turned back into motor oil again. Also, polymer
chains tend to get shortened with use, which decreases film strength, so
the oil needs to be "fixed" to make the chains the correct length again.

Lots of things sound like good ideas until you discover just how expensive
and troublesome it really is to achieve the idea. It's stupid to spend
double for something than you need to. Unless you're trying to make a point
of some kind, like buying a "Smart" car.

Check out the MSDS's. See other post.

 

The cost is in the recovery itself. The trucks, the personnel, the sorting,
the elimination and disposal of contaminants, etc.

Ever wonder what becomes of the tons of toxins removed every year from used
motor oil? I have, too.

Lots and lots. And lots and lots. And lots. Lots more besides. Motor oil
picks up tons of crud, which is one of its jobs. ALL of it has to be
removed before the waste is turned back into motor oil again. Also, polymer
chains tend to get shortened with use, which decreases film strength, so
the oil needs to be "fixed" to make the chains the correct length again.

Lots of things sound like good ideas until you discover just how expensive
and troublesome it really is to achieve the idea. It's stupid to spend
double for something than you need to. Unless you're trying to make a point
of some kind, like buying a "Smart" car.

Check out the MSDS's. See other post.

 

The fact that no one appears to be doing it should suggest something to
you.

 

The fact that no one appears to be doing it should suggest something to
you.

 

recovered aluminum, while it avoids the extensive energy expense of
primary extraction, it not necessarily that useful a material. the
recycling of old soda cans into new soda cans is a classic example [or
at least, was when i was at metallurgy school - things may have
changed]. the can comprises two alloys: the ductile portion that is
deep drawn into the body of the can, and the lid which contains the ring
pull. the lid needs to have limited ductility otherwise the material
won't tear and the ring pull won't work. the body on the other hand
requires ductility to be formed. once they're joined, there's no
economic way of separating the two pieces, thus they both get melted
together on recovery. the resulting alloy is now a mix of high & low
ductility materials which is not usable for either part of the can. it
can be refined, but only at high expense, thus recovered soda cans find
their way into cast aluminum cylinder heads and other limited ductility
applications. new cans are made of new material.

last i heard, the most recovered material is steel. recovery from
domestic uses can be only 30%, but recovery from industrial use can be
over 90%.

 

recovered aluminum, while it avoids the extensive energy expense of
primary extraction, it not necessarily that useful a material. the
recycling of old soda cans into new soda cans is a classic example [or
at least, was when i was at metallurgy school - things may have
changed]. the can comprises two alloys: the ductile portion that is
deep drawn into the body of the can, and the lid which contains the ring
pull. the lid needs to have limited ductility otherwise the material
won't tear and the ring pull won't work. the body on the other hand
requires ductility to be formed. once they're joined, there's no
economic way of separating the two pieces, thus they both get melted
together on recovery. the resulting alloy is now a mix of high & low
ductility materials which is not usable for either part of the can. it
can be refined, but only at high expense, thus recovered soda cans find
their way into cast aluminum cylinder heads and other limited ductility
applications. new cans are made of new material.

last i heard, the most recovered material is steel. recovery from
domestic uses can be only 30%, but recovery from industrial use can be
over 90%.

 

Interesting.

The soft drink companies were the #1 proponents of recycling in its early
days. They were originally afraid to be stuck with the recovery costs for
cans the way they'd been for glass bottles. I guess they had no intention
of using the recovered aluminum for themselves.

That was my point originally. Many industries (including my own) have been
recycling their own waste for a century or more. Industrial waste is as
clean and pure as it's going to get, so it's relatively inexpensive and
easy to reuse.

The major problem with anything post-consumer is contamination. It's
impossible to control at the point of collection, so you have to spend
enormous sums at the sorting depot. And even then you'll get lots of
rejection upon delivery unless you spend millions in taxpayers' money to
bribe companies to take the shit.

My own industry is corrugated fiberboard. Post-consumer is hell to work
with. It's a non-starter without subsidies. Plus, with all the recycling
mandates, we've spent over a decade building entire new plants and machines
to handle post-consumer, since little of the existing equipment could
handle 99% recycled content. This caused shortages and increased prices for
finished goods, and there were terrible quality problems for a long time.
Also, the "recycled" corrugated contains a large percentage of resins to
compensate for the short wood fibers.

Even now 99% recycled is a poor sister to virgin. For critical applications
like UN-certified containers, virgin is the only way to go.

You can only recycle paper fibers so many times (about 7) before they get
too short to use any more, so you always have to gauge the repulped mix and
add virgin fiber and resins to beef it up again. They actually have giant
blocks of virgin pulp (couple of feet on a side) that get dropped into the
pulp like sugar cubes into coffee.

Did you know that for every 100 tons of recycled paper fibers you get 40
tons of unusable sludge? It gets landfilled or incinerated. No good for
anything else.

 

Interesting.

The soft drink companies were the #1 proponents of recycling in its early
days. They were originally afraid to be stuck with the recovery costs for
cans the way they'd been for glass bottles. I guess they had no intention
of using the recovered aluminum for themselves.

That was my point originally. Many industries (including my own) have been
recycling their own waste for a century or more. Industrial waste is as
clean and pure as it's going to get, so it's relatively inexpensive and
easy to reuse.

The major problem with anything post-consumer is contamination. It's
impossible to control at the point of collection, so you have to spend
enormous sums at the sorting depot. And even then you'll get lots of
rejection upon delivery unless you spend millions in taxpayers' money to
bribe companies to take the shit.

My own industry is corrugated fiberboard. Post-consumer is hell to work
with. It's a non-starter without subsidies. Plus, with all the recycling
mandates, we've spent over a decade building entire new plants and machines
to handle post-consumer, since little of the existing equipment could
handle 99% recycled content. This caused shortages and increased prices for
finished goods, and there were terrible quality problems for a long time.
Also, the "recycled" corrugated contains a large percentage of resins to
compensate for the short wood fibers.

Even now 99% recycled is a poor sister to virgin. For critical applications
like UN-certified containers, virgin is the only way to go.

You can only recycle paper fibers so many times (about 7) before they get
too short to use any more, so you always have to gauge the repulped mix and
add virgin fiber and resins to beef it up again. They actually have giant
blocks of virgin pulp (couple of feet on a side) that get dropped into the
pulp like sugar cubes into coffee.

Did you know that for every 100 tons of recycled paper fibers you get 40
tons of unusable sludge? It gets landfilled or incinerated. No good for
anything else.

 

as with most thread differences i investigated further and found some
interesting info regarding re-refine (as it is called) of used motor oil one
link is as follows
http://pubgis.co.pinellas.fl.us/pcuweb_live/solid_waste/oil.cfm

the basic points made:
a.. 1 gallon of used oil produces 2½ quarts of re-refined lubricating oil.
a.. Recycling used oil takes half as much energy as refining crude oil.
a.. Re-refined oil prices are competitive with virgin oil products.
a.. API approved re-refined oils meet warranty requirements for new
automobiles.
a.. The United States Postal Service and National Park Service use
re-refined oil in their vehicles.
a.. All the oil generated by do-it-yourself oil changers in America, if
collected and re-refined, would provide enough motor oil for over 50 million
cars annually.


and some other links
http://www.recycleoil.org/index.html
http://www.earth911.org/master.asp?s=lib&a=oil/uses.asp
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6867789

well you know how to search

 

as with most thread differences i investigated further and found some
interesting info regarding re-refine (as it is called) of used motor oil one
link is as follows
http://pubgis.co.pinellas.fl.us/pcuweb_live/solid_waste/oil.cfm

the basic points made:
a.. 1 gallon of used oil produces 2½ quarts of re-refined lubricating oil.
a.. Recycling used oil takes half as much energy as refining crude oil.
a.. Re-refined oil prices are competitive with virgin oil products.
a.. API approved re-refined oils meet warranty requirements for new
automobiles.
a.. The United States Postal Service and National Park Service use
re-refined oil in their vehicles.
a.. All the oil generated by do-it-yourself oil changers in America, if
collected and re-refined, would provide enough motor oil for over 50 million
cars annually.


and some other links
http://www.recycleoil.org/index.html
http://www.earth911.org/master.asp?s=lib&a=oil/uses.asp
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6867789

well you know how to search

 

The reason I assume Safety Kleen is the manufacturer of Tech 2000 is that
their name shows up on the actually shelf price tag in Walmart. I was not
able to find that name anywhere on the bottle.

Very interesting, thanks for the links Tegger.

I as well have been involved in wood recycling at my last employer,
manufacturing particle board. Only within the last few years were we able to
switch away from the old UF resins, to something more environmentally
friendly. Well it didn't stink like UF anyways, still full of VOCs, though
in lower quantities.

When I left, the VOC reduction strategy was in using more friendly finishing
technologies.

But the bottom line is, like you say, virgin fibre is king, as it is much
much more difficult to control the quality of the fibres used from recycled
materials. Although we could boast a 97% yield of the trees we used, either
for solid wood, veneer or particle board applications.

Another question, as its been forever since my last chemistry class. How
would one lengthen the hydrocarbon chain of a shortened oil molecule? add
carbon?

t

 

interesting. almost /all/ special steels are made from scrap. they
require extensive refining anyway, so may as well use [cheaper] scrap as
the start material. most new material gets put into continuous-cast
product that can't tolerate some of the contaminants post-consumer
steels contain.

 

interesting. almost /all/ special steels are made from scrap. they
require extensive refining anyway, so may as well use [cheaper] scrap as
the start material. most new material gets put into continuous-cast
product that can't tolerate some of the contaminants post-consumer
steels contain.