Power antenna malfunction

I just noticed this morning that the power antenna of my '94 Accord LX
got stuck in the open position and I could not push it down even
manually after turning the radio off. Later I extracted the antenna and
I took it to a Honda dealer's part store to see if the length of the
plastic strip in it is the original length by comparing it to a new one
there. Well, it looked like mine was about 6 inches shorter, so probably
that torn piece was stuck in the antenna motor's wheels, meaning I would
have to remove the motor itself to extract that broken off plastic
strip. Unfortunately, when I looked at the motor behind the trunk
panel, I found the motor so well hidden in there that I could see no
easy way to remove it. Anybody here has done it before and has a good
advice how to do it? In the meantime I disconnected the motor by
pulling out its connector in the hope of at least saving the motor from
possible overload when turning on the radio that still can recieve some
strong FM stations without the antenna, plus I can still use my MP3
player through an FM adapter.

Rudy

 

Apparently not. I guess I'll have to figure it out the hard way then.
:-( To avoid making more scratches around the antenna than I already
have, I better get the special antenna nut (sucket) wrench before I
commit to it though. I wish I knew where to get one. According to the
Service Manual, its part number is 07JAA-001000C.

Rudy

 

You can try a bicycle-repair shop, believe it or not. Certain bicycle parts
are tightened using a similar sort of socket.

 

I pulled the mechanism out of a 90 Prelude. It wasn't too hard at all.
YOu have to undo the fender mounting carefully if you don't have the
specially shaped tool. I had some narrow needle nose pliers that did it
fine. Snap ring pliers would work well too.

Then you have to pull the trunk lining back to get at the motor. It's
held on to a bracket with one bolt (6mm maybe, something like that, I
can't remember). Then unplug the antenna and electricals and the unit
should come out.

The piece that broke off will be in the drum-shaped part of the unit,
which is held together by a few screws.

I don't have the Helm manual here with me, but its not a tough job at
all.

Cheers,
Mike Davis

 

Chain ring bolts.
I used a pair of round needle nosed pliers to get the mounting nut off.
Snap rings would work too.

The trick is to use something that you can concentrate on turning
without having to concentrate on holding it the slots. ...

Cheers,
Mike Davis

 

Even if they have it, that does not mean they have it for sale. Honda
service shops also have them but not for sale. But it's an interesting
idea to pursue, anyway.

Rudy

 

Well, I got it also off with bent needle nose pliers and managed not
only scratch the paint around it but the process also scratched the nut
itself (gold color, not chrome!) and dulls the grooves in it enough to
worry me that I might not be able to turn it in the future if I repeat
this method.

I'm not familiar with these ones.

I agree and pliers are not the tool to be able to do it. At least not
for me.

Rudy

 

They sell them. I own two sizes. They are about as cheap as ordinary
sockets.

The ones I've got have a hole in the middle so axles and the like can
protrude, and have a couple of flats so you can get a wrench on them.

http://tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/bicycle_socket.jpg

You can modify the pins with a grinder to make them fit your application. I
guess you could probably even grind down an ordinary hex socket to do the
same thing.

 

I see. Those nicely manicured hands sure don't look like that of a
grease monkey. ;-)
The hole in the middle is probably not large enough to accommodate the
bottom of the fully extended antenna mast in case it stuck in the
extended position as was in my case.

Looks like that would be necessary because they are too wide to fit in
the nut grooves.

Sure, if you have a well equipped work shop which I don't. :-(

But I still would like to hear how the heck can one get to that antenna
motor that is so tightly sqeezed in there between the side wall and
another supporting metal bracket. Do you have a picture of the removal
process somewhere?

Rudy

 

That's reassuring though I don't know how similar the antenna of your
'90 Prelude was to my '94 Accord. There is also some kind of drain pipe
there I think which might have to be unattached.

It also occured to me if the teeth of that plastic cord need to be
greased before insertion and if so, what kind of grease? I haven't seen
any specific mention of this in the Service Manual. Maybe TeGGer knows
the answer to this, too.

Rudy

 

At last I figured out how to wiggle in the end of the antenna cable
so the motor retracts and extends the antenna mast correctly.
My problem was that after the first few tries, there was still about
3 inches of the mast up when I turned off the radio despite having the
same cable length as in the old antenna. So I figured I should wiggle in
about 3 more inches before I turn off the radio, but I could not do
that. Then a light flashed in my head and I found the trick I was
looking for.
Next time I wiggled in the same small cable length again as before,
then turned off the radio: those 2-3 inches of the mast still sticking
out, of course. But now, after turning on the radio again, I was pushing
back down the mast against the motor's force, enough to hear that the
rachet wheel skipped several teeth on the plastic cable and then the
mast did not quite extend fully. That was exactly what I wanted because
when next I turned the radio off again, the mast was fully retracted
after some ratchet noise from the motor. After these "adjustment cycles"
the antenna was working as it should, without any more teeth skipping.

I am sharing this info, so others out there in similar situation
don't have to go through the same frustruation I've been through. (But
I still want to install that 3-way antenna motor override switch I
mentioned before.)

Rudy

 

2-3 inches of mast refusing to go in usually means a piece of the old cable
broke off and remains in the motor. Did your new mast have a longer piece
of cable than the old one? If so, it will start leaving some protruding
mast again shortly. The fix is to remove the motor, open it up, and take
out the broken piece of cable. Then when you feed the new one back in, if
it doesn't go all the way down the first time, turn the radio on, then
immediately off before the antenna can move up very far and it will pull it
the rest of the way in.

The ratcheting noise was a hint that you were breaking it. There is not
enough room for the extra cable in the little drum on the side of the motor
until you remove the broken piece. Hopefully, you haven't destroyed the
motor yet.

 

Well, you obviously missed my last (March 26) article under another
similar thread, titled "Disabling the power antenna" where I did
describe in detail how I removed the motor assembly and the broken piece
of the cable from the old antenna. The new one has been working fine,
thank you.

I disagree about the ratcheting noise, because it happens quite
frequently during cold winter operation as the motor is struggling to
move the cold and rigid antenna cable. That's the main reason why I
want to install a manual override switch in the radio-to-motor control
wire.

Rudy

 

Apparently. Why a different thread? I've never really understood why
people will post the same problem in multiple threads. Maybe just trolling?

You certainly didn't do it any favors forcing it down. The prescribed
method is to quickly cycle the motor.

So you did damage it, or maybe it partly stripped the gears all by itself.
There should be no racheting noise at any temperature.

 

It was not the same thread initially, but because Mike, having read both
threads, decided to address this issue there, too, starting with the
comment "BTW, in regard to your other post, ..." so I answered him
there, figuring that if he read both threads, others might, too, as the
subjects sound very similar. Sorry, I was wrong assuming that, at least
when it comes to you. No troll was intended at all.

Where is it prescribed? I have the official Honda Service Manual for
this model and I could not find any details in it about that. I wish
you could have joined this thread sooner. Besides, your method would
require another person, one at the radio, another holding the antenna
mast till it's pulled in. I am not in a position to quickly get
somebody to help out when I also have the time working on this. What I
did seems to work and the antenna extends and retracts fully without any
more ratcheting sound.

Well, I noticed that you ignored my comment about operating the antenna
at freezing temps when the motor struggles with the antenna while it
refuses to move. There is plenty of ratcheting then. When I pulled out
the old antenna cable, I didn't see any stripped teeth on the cable and
I'm pretty sure the gear teeth are even tougher than those on the
plastic cable. So it looks like the contact between the gear and the
cable is not as rigid as you are implying. But be as it may, the new
antenna seems to work just fine right now. However, I would still like
to know what that prescribed method is that you referred to, 'cause I
sure could not push in more than perhaps half an inch of the cable
initially, without assistance from the motor. That gear seems to be
pretty stuck in one position without operating the motor. Kinda' like a
car in Park shift position. That initial half an inch, however, was
enough to make the motor pull in the cable after turning the radio off.
I would also be interested in what prescribed method you know to pull
out the cable, like for inspection, for instance.

Rudy