Prestone LowTox + cooling system flush

Today I tried to get as much of the Bars Leak that I used a month
ago to try to stop my '95 Integra GS-R radiator from leaking. I
also wanted to use a proprylene glycol coolant (Preston LowTox).
It's never below freezing, and it doesn't get hot enough that I
worry much about boilover.

I had an old bottle of Sierra cooling system flush. After draining
the system (incl the engine block), I followed the directions,
which were turn on the heater, and run it for 30 minutes. I
did just that (heater at max, fan at lowest level), and left it
running in the garage for 30 minutes. I got back in 30 minutes
and checked. The radiator cap and lower radiator hose were cool
to the touch, but the engine and upper rad hose were hot. I saw
the coolant temp gauge was slightly below the normal running temp.

I figure that with the heater all the way, the engine wasn't
generating enough heat for the thermostat to open. I just drove
it for 30 minutes. I always thought it took a long time for my
Integra to warm up, and since I got another car, it seems really
long in comparison.

I also miscalculated the amount of undiluted coolant I needed to
add, so I tried draining some coolant and adding undiluted coolant
to bring up the concentration. I need some of the tests strips
that work with all glycols. I figure I should try to get the
concentration above 50%.

 

we were just researching this today, troubleshooting my son's 95
passport with a new coolant leak. he's in auto school so I was reading
and annotating his textbook so we could put our heads together over the
problem.
I hope this isn't bad news to you. and yes, 'I've just read a book', so
remember this is all book larnin and thinkin'.
according to the text:
-the mix of water to antifreeze should never be more than 33% water to
67% antifreeze,
-never less than 56% water to 44% antifreeze
and to avoid inexact estimates, that fall outside those safety limits,
-always buy premixed, 50-50, water to antifreeze.
if you can't obtain premixed 50-50 [highly unlikely since it's sold
premixed, but...], then do not pour the pure antifreeze into the system,
ever.
mix the 50-50 yourself, outside the car, in a clean container, large
enough to hold all the mix you mean to put into the system. MEASURE IT
carefully, in a marked container, made for the purpose. [in an
emergency, you could use a flat topped container like a can, and fill it
to the brim with first AF, then water, counting off 1,2,1,2...and
alternate from each, pouring into a third large mixing bucket, stopping
at an even number]

-note: any mix richer than 67% antifreeze actualy reverses the effect of
the intended mix, and instead of cooling your engine, WILL CAUSE IT TO
HEAT FASTER AND FREEZE FASTER than plain water, or the water and
antifreeze mixture.

-another note: do NOT go to propylene glycol additives if your car was
filled at the factory with ETHYLENE glycol antifreeze. stay with 50-50
ethylene glycol and water, period. no other additives will improve it
and may damage it.

so--I would say, if i were you,if i were there, I would
pop all the drain plugs,
collect back everything you poured into the system,
flush it out again*,
buy only fresh 50-50 ethylene glycol with water, premixed-
-unless you absolutely have to mix your own [ i doubt it-- but if
so, follow above recipe, of one part water, then one part ethylene
glycol, equally, into a third bucket--]
reinsert or close your drain plugs
and refill your radiator and cooling side tank again, from scratch.
stop filling the side tank when you reach the lower fill line. it needs
the rest of the space to burp in high heat.

and thank the gods you didn't ruin your car with your hasty, uneven
thinking.

*you can backflush the radiator with your garden hose. direct the water
flow in at the bottom, so the overrun comes out the top thru the opened
radiator cap.
beware polluting. where will this backwash go?

normally you should never have to take off the radiator cap. you should
add lost coolant only at the side tank. and then, only premixed, 50-50.
never the pure stuff.

and as always, guard against children, pets and wildlife being able to
lick up, step in or lick off any antifreeze on the ground or in
containers.

 

one more note--i hope you were ok in what you did to drain the engine
block. those plugs in the bottom of the engine block are not supposed to
be reused once they're removed. they are meant to be replaced with new
ones each time they come out. they aren't meant to come out often.
usually they corrode out with time and wear, and then are meant to be
replaced witth all fresh ones.
that may well be why you turned to the system sealant in the first
place. the plugs do go, and need replaced to restore sealing the system
correctly.

beware. if you just put them back in and refilled the cooling system,
you may well have bad leaking soon, or again, and can expect to have to
replace them all anyway.

so before you spend money to go buy the complete coolant replacement
volume, you ought to find out if you need all the plugs replaced first.
or you'll have to do it all a third time.

sorry.

 

Why the Prestone LowTox? Have you verified with Prestone that it's
"compatible"? The much discussed water pump/antifreeze compatibility is
the important issue here. I prefer to play it safe and use the Honda
coolant, currently the Type 2 which is premixed.

That's a kinda risky thing to do IMO - leave the thing running for 30mins
during the critical period of air bleeding from a freshly refilled system.

It depends on the ambient temp of course but my only experience is that I
know when it was 15F and I idled my already warmed up engine with the
heater on 3/4 heat and fan on position 1, the temp gauge showed a drop in a
few minutes.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Have you looked at a Honda cooling system? All that I've seen and this
Integra in particular, have a single screw-in plug in the block - no need
to replace.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Single plug on the side of the engine block. Requires a 19mm 6-pt
socket. I used a 10-in T-bar to get the thing loose, and used
a non-hardening sealant (Permatex Form-A-Gasket 2) on the threads.
That's what the manual advises. The engine block drain bolt looks
just fine after 131K miles, although the head turned black from soot.
It has never leaked from the bolt.

As for why I used a sealant - the radiator tank cracked, and I had
the radiator replaced. The crack was too big for the sealant to
have any effect.

I'm not trying to be rude, but it doesn't sound like "flawed jai"
ever drained the cooling system on an Integra.

 

I used to use Havoline DexCool, which doesn't contain any of the
nasties that are supposedly verboten in Honda cooling systems.

Nothing bad seems to have happened. What's the preferred procedure?
Would it be to let the thing run for a few minutes, let it cool,
and do so repeatedly. I'm pretty sure no shop would ever go to
those lengths, although a DIYer might not care about the time.

It was maybe 55F, and the hood was open.

 

I believe your '95 GSR is like my '99 GS, in that Honda had eliminated the
air bleed screw from those models, which makes it a little more difficult
to get all the air out. I usually warm the engine up and blip the throttle
a few times, which causes belches of air to come out of the radiator filler
hole.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

No - there's an air bleed screw right on the thermostat housing. It
has a 12mm 6-pt head with an outlet in the middle. There was a small
hiss before coolant ran out in a stream. Then I topped off the
coolant.

 

I used that dex cool also. I mixed it 50/50 outside the car with distilled
water. I don't have any time or mileage on the car to speak of since then
so I have no idea if anything "BAD" is happening as a result of using this
stuff. All I know is the the friggen Honda dealership wants $11.99 a gallon
of 50/50 premixed antifreeze. That is a god damned rip off at $24 a gallon
plus tax. That is just blatant BS, and they don't even use the Honda coolant
when they do your flush.

CaptainKrunch

 

The new Zerex G-05 coolant which is just starting to become widely available
in some parts stores might make a good fit for Hondas. It is a European
style low silica, low phospate extended range coolant and is now the US
factory spec for Fords and Daimler-Chrysler vehicles. Apparently it has
been in use in Europe for quite some time.

None of the Dexcool horror stories seem to have surfaced about G-05 so far.

One older article on the stuff is at:

http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/G05-Glysantin.htm

Valvoline/Zerek have their info at:

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10

I may try this out on my '96 Volvo soon. At the last change I installed
Dexcool as that was the only easily available low silicate coolant in our
area. Volvo specifies their own brand Euro style coolant. I suspect the
G-05 is very similar.

Since changing to Dexcool both the heater core and the radiator have
sprouted leaks. This may be just because of the mileage and age, but with
all of the stories out there I'm rather skeptical about Dexcool.

John

 

If anyone has a new Honda that came with the extended life stuff, then
I might seeing paying those ripoff prices if I was going with that
long replacement period. Honda wasn't about to go with a GM standard.
They say Dexron ATF is OK, but not preferred. They went with a
proprietary power steering fluid when others use standard stuff or
Dexron ATF. There's probably nothing wrong with Dex-Cool, and now
Prestone got a license.

I still have some of the original undiluted Honda coolant. It was
$10/gallon I'm not sure what to do with it. Maybe I'll use it to
top off the radiator in my WRX.

 

Unless Preston has changed the compound, thier low tox antifreeze has silicates
that can cause early water pump failure.
Terry

 

I'd like to find out. The only Prestone product I'm sure doesn't
contain silicates is their extended-life coolant. If it had
silicates, it wouldn't meet the GM standard for Dex-Cool. The
shop that replaced my radiator said they used regular Prestone
in the yellow bottle, although they gave me the option of Honda
Type 2 coolant if I really insisted on paying $20 more. This was
one of the most trusted shops in my area, and they seemed to think
the alleged problem with silicates is way overblown.

I recall that these extended life coolants are supposed to form
some sort of waxy protective layer. Silicates are mildly abrasive,
and will supposedly wear away at or prevent the layer from forming.

 

I can assure that the silicate issue with Honda water pumps is not
overblown - I've seen the results: badly binding water pump after ~20K
miles.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Mixing different types of coolant in a car is usually not a good idea.

 

You said it George. These boys need to do a little more research on
coolants, their ingredients, and their proper application. Until then
they really should stick with the manufacturer's recommendation.
(After research they'll know better and they'll stick with the
manufacturer's recommendation)

But, I'm sure they'll ignore us and use Dexcool, or prestone green,
or RV antifreeeze, or maybe mix them all, 'cause some guy they
know said it was OK.

 

I know. However - just topping one ounce of the radiator is unlikely
to cause a problem. My primary concern is that Honda coolant is
silicate-free and that's the most important thing for a car still under
warranty. OEMs change their suppliers and formulas all the time -
I know the US supplier for Honda "Type I" coolant must have changed
at least once.

The one thing that should be avoided is anything containing silicates
with factory installed extended-life coolant. Prestone says 10% is
enough to bring the change period to 1-2 years. Take it for what
it's worth, but Prestone also claims that they've tested their extended
life (Dex-Cool) coolant for compatibility with Honda coolant.

Does anyone use Redline WaterWetter? I remember seeing some spec
sheet (may have been for the dry version) that said it had silicates.

 

I can understand where you're coming from. However - right now
people are using Honda Type II coolant in systems that were
installed with the non-extended-life coolants, if only because
American Honda has discontinued their original green stuff.
Has anyone really verified the compatibility of this combination?

 

I've seen this stuff at AutoZone. Still - the consensus seems to be
that silicates are to be avoided at all costs. I'll probably change
my coolant one more time - maybe with two flushes of water to get
out as much of the Prestone LowTox as possible.

I used Dex-Cool in my system because my coolant hose burst, I happened
to have it in my garage, and there was no way I was going to find a
place that sold Honda coolant at 8PM to fill the system. I think
Honda also switched to "Type II" by then". Since then (about 17K
miles), the only bad thing that happened is that the radiator tank
cracked, which can't be attributed to the coolant. My mechanic even
said he was surprised it lasted that long (130K miles).

However - in all its infinite wisdom, Honda only sells the Type II
coolant 50/50 premixed with water. This isn't very helpful for
someone who wants to flush out a system (i.e. moi), or lives in
sub-freezing climates. I can imagine someone topping off coolant
with whatever is available in an emergency, and wanting to do a
flush as soon as possible.