Prestone LowTox + cooling system flush

However - that is the one thing that seems to be stressed when it
comes to replacing the coolant in Honda vehicles.

Sure. I've heard that since going to Dex-Cool, GM has had considerably
fewer warranty claims for water pumps. OTOH - they seemed to have run
into a slew of corrosion problems. I don't know exactly what to make
of some of these warnings against Dex-Cool. Is my water pump going to
explode? Is my brand new radiator going to rot away? Is it some
sort of bad interaction? Will it start springing up leaks? The real
question I have is, given that I've already used it in an emergency, i

However - what I plan on doing is draining (or advising a new owner
thusly) the coolant every 15K miles. I doubt this would overly stress
the anti-corrosion properties of the coolant.

 

It isn't necessarily an issue of stressing the corrosion inhibitive
properties of the coolant.
By changing so frequently, you certainly aren't harming anything.

Changing every 15,000 miles is probably overkill, but do as you like to
protect your engine.

I doubt there is anything super special about Honda antifreeze versus
others. I'll have to take a look some day and see what they really put into
that stuff.

 

In the past month, I've had three coolant changes. The first was
with regular Prestone at a shop when my radiator was replaced. The
next was with Prestone Low-Tox (I thought it was silicate-free or
at least low silicate) with a detergent flush. The thinking on this
board was that it was a bad idea, so last Sunday I gave it two
water flushes and finally Havoline Dex-Cool.

That was what Prestone always recommended - 15K miles or every year.
I doubt I'm the only one who went that far. I guess the three coolant
changes in the past month are overkill, but I was just trying to undo
two instances where the wrong coolant might have been used. My last
coolant change before the radiator sprung a leak was maybe 18 months.

Now I have about 20 gallons of used antifreeze sitting in the garage,
from years of coolant changes. My county has a haz waste facility,
but they won't take more than 15 gallons or 125 pounds - something
about the transport limit by state law without a license. This is
one downside, but I guess I can make a couple of trips, and I can
get rid of those oily paper towels I've been collecting.

The sentiments seems to vary from, "What's the big deal with Dex-Cool"
to "Why take your chances?" to "You're just asking for trouble". Toyota
lists "organic acid salts" in their "Long Life Red" coolant, while Honda
lists their corrosion inhibitors as proprietary. I'm also ticked off
that they're charging as much for the 50/50 Type 2 coolant as they did
for their previous undiluted coolant.

 

That sounds like it falls under the same line as oil producers recommending
3000 mile oil changes, i.e. "Good for Business".

 

Whatever it is - Honda says no silicates, borates, phosphates - it is not
really that important. The fact is that the result is a binding water
pump, which will take out your timing belt and can do sreios damage.

Didn't you say you had a leaking radiator? I've never seen that using
Honda coolant and it *is* what people have been complaining about with
Dex-Cool.

The last time I bought coolant, the dealership still had some Type I - not
sure how long that might last.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

.... and you got a radiator leak!

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Not sure if you're joking or not. However - it was a cracked plastic
radiator tank. The mechanic was surprised it lasted 130K miles. My
coolant hose burst at 113K miles after only using Honda coolant changed
every 15K miles.

 

Cracked nylon tank at the top of the original Showa radiator. This
is rather common - right down to where it cracked. Type in "honda
radiator tank cracked" on Google and see how common this is. I don't
blame Dex-Cool for my radiator tank cracking or Honda Type 1 coolant
for the blown upper radiator hose at 114K miles. These were the only
non-wear items I've ever had repaired out of warranty other than the
antenna mast. Less than $500 in about nine years of ownership and
132K miles ain't bad. Pretty darn good compared to my dad's Buick.

I had less than 2 quarts left, so I just used the bottle to store
some of the used antifreeze.

 

Nope, DexCool is well-known to attack solder joints (among other things...)

Why anyone would use anything other than good old yellow-bottle Prestone
is beyond me. G-05 supposedly works a lot better than DexCool, but as
far as I can tell that is damning with faint praise.

 

When. You'll post WHEN it becomes a problem.

What is with this silicate paranoia? Car companies have been using
ethylene glycol coolants with silicate corrosion inhibitors for 30
years, and waterpumps often last 150,000 miles with it. The sudden
paranoia makes no sense to me. It only results in an abrasion problem if
something causes it to precipitate out of solution. In a healthy
antifreeze mix, its actually a lubricant.

 

Yep. Waterpumps are cheap and easy, rotting the engine away from the
cooling passages inward is a killer.

I'd love to know why some companies (GM, Honda, etc.) are basically
saying that they can no longer build water pumps that last >100k miles
with silicate corrosion inhibitors. Everyone sure was doing it in the
60s, 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Certain vehicles (eg. 80s Ford
smallblocks) had problem waterpumps, but that was related to bearing
design, not seal life.

 

I was looking at the Prestone website, and they claim that they
came up sith silicate corrosion inhbitors in the early 70's.

The other thing about Honda water pumps, is that Honda (in all their
infinite wisdom) decided to drive theirs off of the timing belt.
So if your water pump seizes, the timing belt more than likely
snaps. Couple that with interference engines, and you see why
so many people have the water pump changed as part of the timing
belt service.

As was suggested, I looked up what the problems were with DexCool.
From my research on the web, it seems that the majority of sludge
problems were in cast iron block engines. They usually involved
corrosion from large amounts of air in the cooling system. Aluminum
block engines seemed to have far fewer problems, and they might have
just been unrelated to the use of DexCool.

 

Coolant hoses are a normal replacement item at >100K miles - the internal
webbing becomes brittle and any flexing will tear it. Why you change at
15K miles is beyond me - a waste of resource and an excessive burden on the
recycling system IMO... like 3K oil changes.

No I was not joking but now that you've said plastic tank, the Dex-Cool was
likely not the cause. I have my own theories about why the plastic tanks
crack - mechanic abuse. I've never seen it myself.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

It doesn't have to precipitate out. The silicate is there to lay down a
protective anti-corrosion film on metal surfaces. With aluminum the
resulting surface is rough enough to damage pump seals. It is *not*
paranoia - I've seen the results.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

So does my Chrysler 3.5

At least Chrysler wasn't THAT stupid... until after the Dumbler took over.

Which makes me wonder even more... since the water pump on a Honda is
now a "preventive maintenance" item done every 60-100k miles, all the
LESS reason to diddle around with questionable coolants when you could
just use good old Prestone and never EVER see a water pump failure
before it got replaced with the T-belt.

But if you've got any soldered joints, such as a copper based heater
core, consider them gone.

 

No need to wonder: use Prestone regular antifreeze in a Honda and you'll
have a high risk of a seized water pump ~25K miles later... my experience.
There may be other coolants which would work but I know the Honda stuff
works for me.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

Consider this question motivated by ignorance, not malice: WHY can't
(or won't) Honda (or GM, apparently) make a water pump that lasts as
long as everyone else's do with silicate coolants?

 

Well yes - I have pondered the question... and decided to just accept
things the way they are. Even if I could figure out the chemical and
physical processes which lead to failure it's not going to make any
difference... for a savings of $15. or so every 3 years.<shrug> IOW it's a
nuisance but it's not important enough to drive me towards some other mfr
with more bothersome practices.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

George Macdonald wrote:

Oh the cost wouldn't bother me either. For example, I have no gripe
about using ATF+4 transmission fluid in a Chrysler, nor did I have a
problem using Type F in Fords years ago. Its the idea of using a type of
coolant that has inferior corrosion protection for the engine block just
to protect the a cheesy little water pump seal, especially when the same
seal hasn't been problematic for the past 40 years.

 

There sure are a lot of failed water pumps out there over these past 40
years, so don't be so sure about your statement!

John