Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

"mark_digital©" wrote ...

It is my unscientific belief that I regenerate more than I use, based upon
my observation that I am in the green a lot and hardly ever go below half
of the blue. Thus, I would like to use the electric moreso that it does
by default.

Doing it (controlling it) manually, however, would open up the possibility
of hurting the battery on both ends inadvertently - by over and under
charging.

What I would like is the ability to tweak it within limits. (Adjust it to
be a bit more on the electric side.)
Tomes

 

You Prius drivers are almost as nuts as me!

I run a GPS in my Corolla Wagon. The GPS is connected to my
laptop computer and will take voice commands such as 'Where the hell
am I'....

Now just think how dangerous I'd be in a Prius!!!

 

You're redesigned Prius actually (according to what I've read and heard)
does go further and faster in all electric mode under similar conditions
than my '03 Prius. As far as installing another battery pack, if it were my
project I would make it so the second battery pack was for *overflow* only
and not to be charged simultaneously or better put, not a priority.
For the past two very cold weeks (mornings 5 degrees and daytime not much
more than 20 degrees) I've been driving with the speedometer set for
kilometers instead of miles. My fuel efficiency *seems* to have improved and
I can only surmise it's because I can only relate to designated fixed speeds
so I tend to accelerate faster than normal. In the past when I'm on the
highway I noticed 62 mph seems to be the sweet spot. It just so happens to
be 100 kilometers per hour. And the double nickel 55 is the double infinity
88 but upright instead. Hey! Gotta keep amused.

 

In every case I have read about where people have wanted to tweak or adjust
how the hybrid system operates, their desire has been to have the vehicle
run in pure electric mode for a longer period or distance. I believe that
Priuses sold in the UK have an EV button that forces the vehicle to operate
in electric mode as long as possible, and that real world fuel economy
changes very little by using that mode often.

 

How about charged from 120VAC line?
When you get home or where an outlet is available.
Then you use cheaper,more efficiently generated mains power for
charging,not expensive gasoline.

 

All this stuff is technically feasible. The question is whether it is
commercially feasible, that is, whether consumers are willing to pay $2000
to $4000 for the additional battery packs, chargers, etc. and give up trunk
space. My guess is that people would probably give up trunk space but would
be a little more reluctant to part with the additional money since the
payback period may be longer than they intend to keep the vehicle.

The break-even point in terms of fuel costs is somewhere between 3 and 7
years, depending on the cost of fuel, driving conditions, etc. Adding an
additional $2k to $4k may push the break-even point out further than most
people would keep the car. While there are plenty of people who keep their
car for 10 or 20 years, even if all of them purchased the additional battery
capacity, the sales numbers may still not justify an automaker to put it
into production.

 

A driver is a total weenie if he or she cannot get > 50 MPG
from a Prius, even in cold weather.

I've been getting high 50s lately, and am looking forward to
summer-mix gasoline (non oxygenated) with 5% higher energy content
so I can cross 60 MPG per fill-up.

 

The exact numbers are not to hand but, in general, the efficiency
of charging from a wall socket is not as good as people generally
think. It may be $cheaper to the householder than what is put in
in fuel tank; but that's a red herring in the efficiency puzzle.

Consider these stages when charging:

* burn fuel at the power station and convert to electricity (hard
to compute the efficiencies if the energy source is, say, hydro
or solar or one of those, so skip them for now);

* convey the electricity to wall socket and charger unit (if long
journey across country, losses not negligible);

* convert electricity to form suitable for battery (low volt DC),
then convert to chemical energy, then back to electricity (huge
losses overall).

Compare this with the clever juggling the full hybrid setup does.
Often the battery stays idle, as engine drives generator and that
drives electric motor. If it does involve the battery, we do not
have to pay for transmission losses. The higher-than-usual Prius
petrol engine efficiency... hmm, I'd be guessing irresponsibly if
I estimated how it matches up to the power station and would like
to know more.

Just a thought, right?

 

Then that makes me a weenie. <g> Likewise the other Prius owners
who use my local T dealer/maintainer, who reports 56mphUK is what
most drivers get, long term. (That'd be about 44.8mpgUS.)

Share your secret, Bill?

 

The first Prius was available in calendar year 1997 as a 1998 model
year (the NHW10 model). The 1998-2000 model year Prius was only
available in Japan. Beginning with the 2001 model year (available in
2000 calendar year), the Prius was redesigned and available for sale
internationally (the NHW11 model). The 2001-2003 model year Prius is
what is usually referred to as the "Classic" Prius.

A small handful of the original Japanese Prius were brought out of
Japan for some testing, to see what updates were needed for an
international release. Was this one that you had tried in 1999? It's
best identified as a compact sedan, no rear spoiler, the center
display is all in Japanese, and had dash buttons for the display
rather than a touch-screen. Oh, yeah, and it's RHD. (The NHW11 added
the rear spoiler, a touch-screen, and has a more powerful engine and a
more powerful (different design) battery pack, so better fuel economy
and acceleration.)

To my knowledge, there has always been just the brake pedal and the
accelerator pedal... So how were you controlling the gasoline engine
with your left foot?

 

There's always a possibility the engine will start anyway even if the car is
sitting still. If both battery packs are topped off ahead of time then
there's no place else to store the electricity. Then the so-called savings
from using AC utility power are diminished. By how much I don't know. All I
can say is if an extra battery pack allowed me to travel 20 miles I would be
hauled off, tarred and feathered by everyone behind me for going so slow.

mark_

 

How about Corolla II?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Toyota_corolla_ii.jpg

 

It was a dealer 'teaser', that was available for show before actual sale.
It was LHD, but this one was at the dealership months before they were
actually available for sale here. One side was white, due to an accident.
The other side was a huge billboard "PRIUS 60MPG Hiway Mileage Hybrid"

Sorry...meant right foot...

 

I'm sorry too. I thought you were implying you could steer with your......
Oh, never mind.
mark_

 

Dear Newsies

If you want a high performance, all-electric automobile (which seems
to where the thread was going) you might check out:

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

It is based on the tZero:

http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/

and uses many Lotus parts and basic chassis.

There are to Honda or Toyota bits in either that I know of so this is
an off-topic post.


Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher

 

Well, I *CAN*, but that's besides the point...

 

Yeah, but the original was $134,000 to the first 200 customers, and
$80,000 after that!

But...va-ROOOOOM!!!!

Basically a Lotus Exige with an electric motor.

 

I am not afraid to drive slowly!
Of course the "Old Fart in Training" license plate cover helps.

Driving 75-80 mph from San Jose to Los Angeles, my wife got about
what you UK drivers get. Short trips are far worse for Prius mileage
than excessive speeds.

 

That's encouraging (for future times when/if I do similar trips)
but puzzling too. Last June, when the weather here was warm and
dry, I drove about 400 miles in one day over mostly level ground
and at 50/60-ish speeds (as fast as it was safe+legal+feasible),
getting around that 56mpgUK -- which, incidentally, I learn I've
been converting to mpgUS wrongly, making it more like 46.8mpgUS.

This figure proved so reliable that, come late Sunday as I drove
across the Yorkshire Dales, through village after village that'd
never heard of selling petrol on weekends, I could calculate the
point where my tank would run dry with some confidence; and that
journey was a wild series of undulations and twists going on for
some 50 miles, in gathering gloom, with dry stone walls flashing
past because I did NOT want to be caught out there come the dark
(on account of the famous Yorkshire werewolves, you understand).

 

(Andrew Stephenson) wrote in

I suspect that electric generation is more efficient any from 120VAC source
than any hybrid auto,and also outputs far less pollutants.

Transmission losses are present regardless of whether the auto is charged
from the line or not.Losses from corona discharge/leakage are far greater,I
suspect.

and you neglect the conversion losses that the auto has in going from
electric to mechanical and back,also the self-discharge the batery pack
has.