Question on CV Joints/Boots

Hello,

With the previous three new cars I've owned, all front-wheel drive, I
drove them well past 100K mi. with each of them. But with all of
them, I've had to replace the CV joints for the same reason: the boots
dry out and crack, the grease comes out, and the dirt gets in.

Now, with my relatively new car, I wish to be able to avoid or prevent
that from happening again, so I did some research on CV joint
maintenance, and everything I've read talked about what to do when the
boots crack. Nothing about how to prolong their life or prevent those
boots from cracking.

The cost of the parts really isn't a problem, but you guys probably
know, it's a very labour intensive and time consuming repaire.

What's rather preplexing to me is that I read often how some people
who've put on >150K mi. on their previous cars, some having owned
about 5 or 6 different cars in the past and even living in northeast,
and never had a CV joint problem due to the boots cracking or failing,
let alone the CV joints itself going bad.

So, my question is, does anyone have a time proven or a definitive way
to prevent the boots from failing? I read how some would liberally
apply silicone spray on the CV boots and other boots everytime they
changed the oil. Would that be a good way to prolong the life of or
prevent the boots from cracking prematurely?

Any other suggestions or insight into this would be greatly
aprpciated. Thanks for your time and courtesy.

 

Yup, it happens.

The boots are in a really harsh environment. Eventually, they go. If
you inspect them regularly you can sometimes replace the boot itself
before damage occurs to the joint, but it's not really worth it. I
figure that if the boot is torn, I don't want to mess with it, it's
not worth spending $25 for a new boot when I could spend $60 and have
a known good remanufactured unit and not have to deal with the mess of
just replacing the boot.

I took a picture of someone elses nightmare.. They were changing just
the boots... http://mailsack.org/cv.jpg Looks messy..

Swapping the CV axles typically isn't a big deal. Pull the wheels,
knuckles, remove a couple of bolts holding the unit in, and pull
straight out. Air hammer is sometimes helpful breaking the steering
knuckle loose. Thats all it was on a Nissan Altima I worked on
semi-recently. Total time to swap both axles was less than 2 hours.

Luck?


__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

 

The boots crack due to a combination of cold and steering stresses. If the
boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car, they will last
almost indefinitely in any environment.

There is nothing you can do to prevent cracking (except for never turning
the steering wheel), but lots you can do to prevent CV joint damage.

CV joints go bad chiefly because the boots split and water gets in. If you
inspect the boots at every oil change, you will eventually find some
cracking in the insides of the bellows folds (spread the folds apart a bit
to see them more clearly). Once those cracks start appearing, you have
maybe a year to two years before the cracks become holes. I replace my
boots as soon as I start seeing cracking.

If you spot and replace cracking boots before they hole, you can make your
CV joints last the life of the car, so says my Japanese mechanic. My '91
Integra has 218,000 miles and the original driveshafts and CV joints. The
boots have been changed twice.

The very newest Civic CV joint boots are made from some sort of plastic
material that is supposed to be far more durable than the rubber that was
previously used. These are the boots that were installed on the Integra
last spring.

Nope. Doesn't work. It's the cold and the steering that kills the boots.

And I'd bite the bullet and get the proper solid boots put on by a
professional. If you live in a cold/snowy area, split boots will open up
fairly quickly and let water in, killing your joints anyway.

 

cold is adverse only if is beyond freezing point, warmth is actually
more damaging to rubber.

and steering stresses. If the

Really, that's a whopper! Do you have any arguments to support that?

that won't change anything much, the rubber gets dry and cracked just
from being exposed to the environment. Main killer for it is ozone (no,
I'm not an environmentalist) If you ever had the chance to inspect a car
kept many years in a garage, you'd have noticed that all the rubbers
aged and cracked.

Actually is the sand which mixes with the grease and forms an abrasive
paste which damages the friction surfaces. Single water will not damage
the joint unless you hose it into the joint.

 

Winter cold hardens the rubber and makes it less able to flex, hence the
cracking. Of course, winter cold in California as not the same thing as
winter cold in Barrow, Alaska.

Check any Toyota MR2. Up to and including the first 1985s. Very few of
those ever suffered split CV joint boots, since the rears did not steer. We
recently sold our old '86 with 140,000 mi. It had the original CV joint
boots. No cracking of any kind was present in any of the bellows.

Splitting hairs here. Most people complaining of split boots are talking
about their daily drivers.

Shall we split more hairs? Road water by definition is full of grit. You
*know* what I mean.

 

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:55:42 GMT, TeGGeR

[snipped an excellent and much appreciated response]

TeGGeR, thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to inspect for cracks in
the boots every oil change and replace them as necessary.

 

You're welcome.

Don't know what car you've got, but if it has unequal-length driveshafts
(no center shaft and bearing), pay particular attention to the one on the
differential side. This one will crack first because it runs at steeper
angles relative to the axis of the wheel.

The cracks generally start on the largest part of the bellows first, and
only on part of the circumference, so check all around in good light.

 

I actually enjoyed the "grace" you turned your pseudo-knowledge into a
"splitting hair" case. I bet you can turn a tune-up job into a engine
swap with the same ability. Do you work for AAMCO?
I know too well your weekend warrior type. Doing most of my side repairs
outside, not in garage, there are way too many passer-by over anxious to
show off their mechanical wisdom and waste my time with their ignorance.
To you, the difference between hot and cold (you don't warm up your
meal, you put it in the fridge before you eat it), water and sand (water
contains sand and sand contains water, isn't it?) it's a splitting hair
matter.

I changed more boots in LA than when I was living in NY.

Which you were actually talking about, isn't it?

If the

And 18 years is "almost" an eternity. Than at 50 you'll consider
yourself practically immortal!
LOL, ROTFLMAO!


We

Wow, I imagine how thrilled the buyer was that you inspected the boots
before selling the car!

 

Everything I posted is based on extensive discussions with my Japanese
mechanic, who has thirty years experience working daily on Japanese cars.
These discussions came up due to my own need to have my boots replaced, so
I had a vested interest in getting the straight goods.

He runs his own shop, which among many other things, replaces boots and CV
joints every single day of the week. He knows why they fail. He sees many
instances of people trying to replace their own boots with the "split boot"
type, and knows the pitfalls and shortcomings of that method.

This guy can tell you all sorts of little insider tips, such as exactly
what Subaru lock ring can be used to hold the Civic CV joint boot in place,
and how it's better than the Honda design. He can rebuild CV joints and
literally anything else found on or in a car.

After 20 years relying on this guy's services over the ownership of six
cars, I trust him much more than I trust me or you.

 

The boots crack due to a combination of cold and steering stresses. If the

Not true. I've had to replace several rear CV boots on several on my various
AWD Subarus.

 

Check any Toyota MR2. Up to and including the first 1985s. Very few of

I also had two MR2's. My 89 SC needed a rear CV boot replacement.

A friend of mine has a Ferrari 308 that also needed a rear CV boot
replacement.

 

So I was right when I guessed you as an weekend warrior. My little bird
never misses your kind. First let me feed her and ROTFLMAO!
OK now, let me catch my breath, darn, I should have quit smoking 20
years before I actually did it. Still choking LOL and trying to catch my
breath. Darn, no fun being old, except for hot embers like you bringing
life to my small fire.
OK now, let me do a little drawing in the sand so you'll understand
easier. My own estimate is that between 70-90% of repair shop visits
have a "not needed yet" repair attached to it. And I'm not talking about
the straight out scams. If your alternator is pumping juice 2-3 clikx
below it's stated duty, your trusted "japanese mechanic" will show you
that and talk you into replacing it with a newly refurbished unit
because your $35 Kirkland battery will be damaged otherwise. You'll
agree because you don't know anyway the range of undercharging your
battery can withstand. So your japanese mechanic will take down the
alternator and toss it ostentively into the recycling bin destined for
junk yard and make you happy with a new one. You're out $80-$150. He
didn't cheated you 100%, your alternator probably had 6mos to 1 yr. life
in it, but he made sure that you do the repair NOW in his shop. After
you leave he'll retrieve the part from the garbage and with $10-15 worth
of parts and 15-30 min. labor make a newly refurbished part worth
another $75-150 for the next weekend warrior. You'll never see this
numbers in Consumers Reports/Digest because a good mechanic will sniff
out a fake customer miles away. Only the fools fall for investigative
shows you see on TV about crooked repairmen.
Oh God, enough typing just for a dummy like you. One more thing, I can
teach you in less than 10 min how to rebuilt a drive axle and if you are
not an idiot and you have the tools and spare parts, you'll do it as
good as any other trained mechanic with 20 years of japanese experience!
99% of times auto repair is not rocket science.
And last word, next time you give advice, do it based on your own
experience and knowledge, not on what someone else told you or what
you've seen done by others! So you don't expose yourself as a clown.
You wanna split hairs now? I'm game!

 

Oh, phlease! Just shut up! You're talking from your belly, you obviously
have no mechanical training and you get into matters like a fly in a
horse's ass. JUST SHUT THE **** UP!

 

Thank you Scott, for exposing this idiot's "advice"

 

There will always be exceptions to any rule.

There may be other factors at work in your case. Shaft angle, rubber
composition used by Subaru, statistical randomness, etc.

My guy's 30 years of experience on this subject says steering and cold are
the primary killers of CV joint boots by far. I believe him.

 

TeGGEr,

I think you could add 'ice formation' to the causes. When wet, compacted
snow or dripping water freezes overnight, it wedges / encases your boots
at whatever angle they were sitting last.

In the morning you start the car, crank the wheel and drive off. The
boots could really take a beating as they tear themselves free from the
ice and grit.

Floridians don't suffer from this much, but Albertans do, with
temperature falling to -40 on occasion... :-(

'Curly'

-------------------------

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To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.

Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
you should not play any notes you have left over. -

 

wonder how much that would run

 

That's the order in which mine went (contrary to some nay sayer's opinion). I
replaced the originals with aftermarket remans about 2.5 years ago. The
passenger side reman went about 5 months ago and the second I noticed one week
ago during an oil change.

I think mine split on the first crease (again, contrary to some nay sayer's
opinion).

Right again!

John M.
92 Civic DX HB AT

 

|> Check any Toyota MR2. Up to and including the first 1985s. Very few of
|> those ever suffered split CV joint boots, since the rears did not steer.
|We
|> recently sold our old '86 with 140,000 mi. It had the original CV joint
|> boots. No cracking of any kind was present in any of the bellows.
|
|I also had two MR2's. My 89 SC needed a rear CV boot replacement.

Obviously, too much rear toe
|A friend of mine has a Ferrari 308 that also needed a rear CV boot
|replacement.
|
|

Rex in Fort Worth

 

|
|>> The boots crack due to a combination of cold and steering stresses.
|>> If the boots were on the REAR driveshafts of a front-steering car,
|>> they will last almost indefinitely in any environment.
|>
|> Not true. I've had to replace several rear CV boots on several on my
|> various AWD Subarus.

The issue here is wheel travel. The MR2 had relatively little, cornered flat.
The WRX has lots, due to it's rally heritage. Wheel travel imposes the same
joint angularity as steering.
Rex in Fort Worth