R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

If you do not believe you will spend at least 20% more to drive home an
import, I would suggest you actually go out in the real world and get
comparable total drive home prices on the same size and equipped domestic
and imports then get back to us


mike hunt

..

 

Obviously you have not been in the market for a new car lately, right?
LOL


mike hunt

 

Um, for 2006, Exxon is now number one, dethroning Wal-Mart. (Fortune 500)
GM Barely retained 3rd to Chevron and Ford went from 4th to 5th. But this
is only the list of US companies.

Fortune Global 500 is still showing 2005 stats for now.

 

That's been my impression too.

 

I'm sure he'll find a way to use those stats to try and convince us
that the reason that the rapid depreciation, fire-sale tactics and
lower used car prices are absolute proof that GM/Ford/Chrysler cars
are indeed better.

I know, I know it means the exact opposite, but he'll try....

 

I've done that several times. My conclusion? You're flat out
wrong. Throw in the added benefit of better reliability with the
import and it's an even better bargain.

 

Does four new vehicles since 2002 meet your criteria for recent
purchases?

 

JT,
Good point. Probably for the same reasons that the owners of Mercedes
purchased the Chryler corp. They continued to make the best selling
vehicles such as Jeep
and the full sized pick-ups. They stopped making the worst selling vehicles.
Jason

 

Mike,
You made some great points. One of the main reasons that GM sells so many
cars in America is related to the price of many of the models. For
example, if a person planned to buy a new car and only made about $25,000
per year--that person would probably buy a GM Metro LSI instead of a Honda
Civic. However, that same person would probably have preferred to buy the
Honda Civic. It's for these same reasons that Walmart is number 1 in their
field.
Jason

 

I like to address a subject in general terms and not get personal but you
must be like me, I have owned eight since I switched from imports to
domestics in 1999, but if what you say is true then you should know what I
said is true as well. Unless of course if you don't shop more than one
brand. I did that with Lexus until I got smart and shopped around and found
I could drive home a domestic for over 20K less. In fact when I bought my
first domestic, which proved to be just as good as the Lexus' I had been
buying, with the money I saved I bought a second vehicle from the same
dealer


mike hunt

 

That my be your opinion but you can't prove it by me. I have never owned an
import that was any more reliable or better then what I now buy and I am
paying a lot less to drive them home.


mike hunt

 

LOL. The top-poster makes an ass of himself yet again.

 

From the Chicago Tribune (4/2/06 Sect 12, p8) Truck Rebate Guide:

Pickups
Ford F150 $2,500 - 3,500
Ford F series $2,500
GM Avalanche $4,000
GM Silverado $500 - 2,500
Toyota Tundra $1,500
Honda Ridgeline $1,000


Huge SUVs
Ford Excursion ('05) $3,000
Ford Expedition $5,000
GM Suburban $5,000
GM Tahoe ('06) $5,000
GM Tahoe ('07) Financing
Toyota Land Cruiser None
Toyota Sequoia $2,000
Hummer H2 Financing

Large SUVs
Ford Explorer $2,000 - 3,000
GM Trailblazer $1,000 (SS finance only)
Toyota Highlander $600 (hybrid finance only)
Toyota 4Runner $1,000
Honda Pilot None


Small SUVs
Ford Escape $2,000 - 3,000 ($0 - 500 hybrid)
Ford Freestyle $1,000 - 1,500
GM Equinox Financing
Honda Element Financing
Honda CRV None
Toyota RAV4 None


Cash rebates always have an alternative financing option of uncertain
value.

The Sunday Tribune alternates trucks and cars weekly on its Rebate
Guide so I don't have the Car Guide this week. Generally GM and Ford
cars have much higher rebates than Toyota and Honda.

Fully 25% of GM vehicles are sold to fleet buyers at prices below even
what the dealers pay. The Japanese companies don't offer those
discounts because they don't have tons of excess capacity. So, in the
minds of a lot of those who buy them, better means it's real cheap and
I don't have to drive it.

GM sells a lot of cars because they have to sell a lot or their unit
price skyrockets due to their fixed costs. Like everyone else, GM
aims for a price and volume that will maximize profit. In GM's case,
the best they could do in 2005 was a $8.5B...oops, $10.5B loss. If
their cars were really "better" they could charge enough to make a
profit.

BTW, if GM had paid absolutely nothing for health care in 2005, they
still would have lost over $5B.

And people are willing to pay enough that Honda and Toyota make a good
profit.

But GM has to discount them so heavily that they are losing money on
them. (Are any Japanese cars classified as "full size?")

But not so good that Ford doesn't have to give a $2,000 to $3,000
rebate on them.

31% fewer in March than a year ago.

Are there any Japanese competitors in this segment? With gas up to $3
again, I think GM and Ford are going to have this niche to themselves
for as long as they want it.

Again, no Japanese competitors.

I thought Dodge had the best full size van.

Ford probably makes a profit on these, even with the $3,000 rebate.
But with more serious competition form Japan and $3 gas, even that may
change.

 

You don't go to many 5-star restaurants, do you Mikey?

Is the guy eating at the 5-star restaurant smarter than the guy eating
at McDonalds? Well, on the average he is probably earning five to ten
times as much so I would be inclined to say yes.

 

I believe that the Avalon is classified as a full size car.

I believe that the Toyota Sequoia and Nissan Armada are in the same segment
as the Suburban and Expedition.

 

Sometimes it pays to spend a little more. For instance, my 1978 Toyota
Hilux still runs great. It has the original motor and transmission and
they haven't been rebuilt either. How many domestic vehicles that old
can you say that about? If the domestic auto companies could come up
with something as dependable as the 20R/22re, they'd quit making it to
force people into buying more often. The Ford I-6 is an example.

Here's something else to chew on. One of my 4runners had the head gasket
go out at 90,000 miles. It trashed the engine completely. They had a
recall on the gaskets, but it was out warranty. What do you think GM
would do in this case? I'll tell you what Toyota did, they replaced the
engine for the grand total of $0.00. So now the 4runner is approaching
300,000 miles, I figure it's ok to spend a little more on Toyota.

It boils down to this: If you don't mind having to buy again a 175,000
miles and you want to keep Mexican workers employed while lining execs
pocket, buy GM. And good luck with you ABS system that should have been
recalled long ago. Oh, I almost forgot, don't let anyone sidewipe you in
your truck either because you'll see alot more flames than this post.

 

I have one, a 1971 Pinto that I bought in 1970 for around $1885. It
currently has nearly 300K on the clock. Looks and runs great. The drive
train is all original, except I had to replace the clutch at 210K. I wish
the 75 Celica, that cost me around 5K, had held up as well.


Mike Hunt

 

GM would have said tough luck on you, and Mike Hunt would agree with them.

John

 

Hello,
That reminds me of the problem that I had with a 1986 mini-pickup (Dodge
RAM-50) that I purchased "new" from a Chrysler dealership. It had an auto.
transmission. The carbuator was replaced three different times (for free)
while it was under warranty. It was obvious that it was a factory defect.
After the warranty ran out, the service manager refused to replace the
carbuator for free. The service manager knew that it was a factory defect
but refused to refused to replace the carbuator for free. It was the last
vehicle that I ever purchased from an American car company. I was not
shocked when Chrysler was taken over by
Mercedes. I certainly hope that they are now treating customers much
better at the local Chrysler dealership.
Jason

 

Mike,
You may want to check the resale value of the Lexus compared to your cars.
You will find that the Lexus has a much better resale value. The reason is
simple:
most everyone in America knows that Lexus is far superior to cars made by
American companies. If you want to convert the figures to
percentages--feel free to do so.
Jason