R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

Hello,
Excellent points but you failed to include two other factors:
Resell value: The Honda wins that contest.
Quality: Which car will run the best for 100,000 miles? Honda wins that contest.
Which car will break down the most or develop major mechanical problems
during the 100,000 miles? GM wins that contest.
Car and Driver magazine runs long term tests on various vehicles--Cars
made my Japanese companies do much better than cars made by GM.
Jason

 

Sure I could or you could reasearch this yourself if you want but I have
found that when I do post details most people won't even bother to make the
effort to read them sufficiently to understand the issue to a greater extent
anyhow.
Too many people just have too short of an attention span and just assume
anything that is beyond their capacity to understand is just hot air I
guess.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

But now-a-days, non-unions do more harm than good.

Try New Trier. First rate education. Of course, they pay their
teachers like $90K.

For a lot of impoverished children, getting into the school system two
years earlier could make all the difference in the world.

 

Really? Then why does GM sell vehicle at a rate more than three time that of
Honda?


mike hunt

 

You said, "Actually GM sells more cars than Toyota and Honda sell
Camrys and Accords. It just that they have different brand names on
the hood." That is an ambiguous statement but, for the record, Honda
and Toyota combined do sell more cars than GM.

2005 sales stats from:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060104/auto_sales_table.html?.v=2


General Motors
Car: 1,713,578 vs. 1,847,040, down 7 percent
Truck: 2,702,464 vs. 2,770,260, down 2 percent
Vehicle: 4,416,042 vs. 4,617,300, down 4 percent

Ford
Car: 934,832 vs. 888,633, up 6 percent
Truck: 2,018,365 vs. 2,210,086, down 8 percent
Vehicle: 2,953,197 vs. 3,098,719, down 4 percent

DaimlerChrysler
Car: 526,823 vs. 474,119, up 11 percent
Truck: 1,778,010 vs. 1,731,905, up 3 percent
Vehicle: 2,304,833 vs. 2,206,024, up 5 percent

Toyota
Car: 1,289,356 vs. 1,101,221, up 17 percent
Truck: 970,940 vs. 958,828, up 2 percent
Vehicle: 2,260,296 vs. 2,060,049, up 10 percent

Honda
Car: 837,822 vs. 843,289, down 0 percent
Truck: 624,650 vs. 551,109, up 14 percent
Vehicle: 1,462,472 vs. 1,394,398, up 5 percent

Nissan
Car: 572,465 vs. 536,757, up 7 percent
Truck: 504,205 vs. 449,232, up 13 percent
Vehicle: 1,076,670 vs. 985,989, up 10 percent

 

Actually they pay state and local taxes as do their employees but they do
NOT pay federal corporate income taxes in the US, not Japanese corporation
does. Domestic manufactures pay state and local taxes as do their
employees as well but they
also pay federal corporate income taxes on the profit they earn in the US

mike hunt

 

In Detroit, scrapping 15-year-old car designs, upgrading factories, and
even inventing the minivan also made no sense because the MBA mindset
hates uncertainty, and capital investment always includes a high degree
of uncertainty.

Hybrids are uneconomical at $3/gallon, but at $5+ it's another matter,
and currently no realistic alternatives exist improve fuel consumption
much, except diesels, but crude oil yields far less diesel than
gasoline. And if we ever adopt a sensible energy plan, then either gas
will be $5/gallon, or vehicles with bad fuel economy will cost more to
buy than the efficient ones.

 

That would be quite in keeping with a short-sighted UAW mentality: screw GM
today so I can screw my own pension/benefits tomorrow.

Kinds like what got GM/UAW where it is today.

 

I can see why you are confused. You are confusing brands and corporations.
Toyota is ONE brand but Toyota Motor (Sales) Company includes Toyota, Scion
and Lexus in the US. Ford is ONE brand but Ford Motor Company includes
Ford, Lincoln and Mercury. GMC is one brand (of truck.) GM includes
Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn, GMC and Hummer. GM and FMC
also sell some of their import brands in the US but are not included in
sales totals. If their import brands were included GM and Fords total sales
would be even higher. In the US GM and Ford Motor Company sell more trucks
alone than Toyota Motor (Sales) Company sells cars, trucks and SUVs
combined.


mike hunt

 

Because they make many more models--including full sized pickup
trucks--than Honda. I answered your question so please answer my
questions:
Why is GM considering bankruptcy?
Why are the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry the best selling selling cars in
America?
Is Honda Inc. considering bankrupty?

 

Unions are still a great idea; responsible unions that understand it's not
"us vs. them" but "us and them".

The Japanese car makers have unionized work forces in Japan. Of course the
Japanese unions realize that it is in their own best interest not to try to
bleed their employer dry with absurd contracts, something the UAW has yet to
learn judging by their unwillingness to negotiate in good faith with
basket-case Delphi.

To be fair, the UAW leadership has to put up with knuckleheads in their
ranks like these clowns who seem bent on screwing up and progress that might
be made.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2777

To be sure, these people are the product of UAW rhetoric from years past and
even today.

 

Not even at $5/gal... do the math -t he Detroit guys did.

At $5/gal, the Prius won't even save enough money to pay off its battery
replacement, much less it's up-front cost.

A Prius saves only 62 gallons a year over its equivalent non-hybrid Toyota
(that's assuming you actually GET the EPA miles, many, if not most, hybrid
owners complain they don't - so much so the EPA is redesigning the mpg test
for hybrids)

But let's assume you fit perfectly and the book mpg.

The eco-hybrid costs $7500 more up front + needs a $2000 battery @ 100K/10yr

Even $10/gal gas won't realistically recoup the $7500 (plus declining value
interest on the $7500) much less the $2000 battery bill every ten years.

Assuming 10K miles/yr, with 4% real cost of money and batteries, it would
take 27 years to breakeven with $10/gal gas, 14 years at $15/gal.

Hybrids are feel good cars for the faithful.

Now... a plug hybrid (recharged off the grid and run commuter 100% electric
w/o gas at all) is another story, but then no automaker makes or sells those
here.

 

My response was to the statement that Toyota and Honda makes better cars.
What I said was that was not reflected in the sales numbers, since GM sells
more cars than Toyota and Honda. GM still sells more cars than anybody.
Many people believe what they see in ads. Toyota is advertising they are
the number one car brand, that is true but Chevrolet is the number one BRAND
name, that includes cars and trucks since American have been buying more
trucks than cars for the past five years. Ford is the number two BRAND
name. Toyotas growth over the past five years, like every other
manufacture, has been in trucks and SUVs sales in Toyota and Lexus and the
addition of Scion. Camry sales were actually down in 2005.

I'm simply trying to set the record straight. Toyota is advertising they
have been the number one car in the US, that is true but GM, Ford and
Chrysler have individual vehicles that sell in far greater numbers. When it
come to who sells what in the US GM is number one, Ford number two, Chrysler
number three and Toyota and Honda a distant fourth and fifth. Toyota Motor
(Sales) Company sold only around 11% of the 16,500,000 vehicles sold in the
US in 2005. Honda less than 8% The ultimate indicator of who makes the
best, among its pears in any segment, is the total annual sales period.


mike hunt

 

The fact that we are the only first-world nation without nationalized
health insurance?

Corporations fought against nationalized health insurance for decades
by scaring Americans into thinking they would have inferior health
care. Now that it has come time to pay the bills for the private
health care system, they are whining because it is too expensive.

The pensions were supposed to be funded on a pay-as-you-go basis.

 

SS is in good shape as long as the US Government remains solvent.
When the US Government becomes insolvent you are going to wish you had
never heard the name, Bush.

 

Hyperbole will get you nowhere. GM, Ford and DC combined sold about
580,000 trucks in December. Honda sold 625,000 trucks in 2005.
Toyota sold 971,000 trucks in 2005.

 

"Tom Levigne" wrote in message

We'll take that as a "no."

 

What profit?

 

DC sold 2,304,833 vehicles in 2005
Toyota sold 2,260,296 vehicles in 2005

Doesn't look like a "distant" fourth to me.

Not that it matters. Honda is making lots of money. Toyota is poised
to take over as the biggest vehicle maker in the world. DC, well
that's really a German company now so it is hard to see why it is even
considered part of the Big 3. It will be even harder when Toyota
passes it in sales next year.

For now, GM and Ford are losing money on every car they sell but
making it up on volume. Five years from now you may barely recognize
them.

 

LOL

Natalie