Rear spoilers and safety?

I'm thinking of getting an Accord Coupe. I've had 2 rear end
accidents over the years. Though I really don't think the spoiler
adds much to the looks of the car, I'm wondering if it adds any degree
of safety. It seems that the 3rd brake light, when mounted in a
spoiler, is much brighter...almost too bright. Does that make any
sense at all? Tnx.

 

The idea of a 3rd brake light is to get it up high enough that it is
visible through the windows of the car behind you to the guy in the
car behind him. Up high on the inside of your back window is much
better than low down on a stupid drag-inducing just-for-show
'spoiler'.

 

I don't know if any studies have been done on the difference between spoiler
lights and window lights, but I do know the studies I have seen place
peoples eyes staring at just about the middle of the car ahead of them. So
basically the person behind you is staring at your license plate while
driving. This assumes that both cars are of equal stature which anymore
isn't the case.

On my Honda Accord the factory 3rd brake light is at the bottom of the rear
window and if it had a small factory spoiler the LED third brake light on it
would be higher, and wider than the factory light in the window. It would
also be brighter and LED lights come on sooner than a standard brake light
bulb.

So I would have to disagree with the your opinion that a person would want a
high up brake light through the window and the implication that a 3rd LED
brake light on a spoiler is of no value.

I would agree with you concerning the non after market, sections of jet
aircraft wings used for spoilers on the Ricky-Racer cars out there.

CaptainKrunch

 

It is my understanding that while the center brake lights reduced the
numbers for rear end accidents when they were first introduced, the
numbers went back up again as people got used to them. So it wasn't the
position of the break light that made the car safer, it was the novelty
of it being in a new place.

-Joshua

 

While the fact that rear end accidents may be up there is no factual basis
for the reasoning of such.

Since the federal law was enacted in 1986, I believe, requiring third brake
lights, many other factors contribute to rear end collisions. For example
there are simply more people driving and traffic is more congested. People
are using cell phones now as opposed to hardly anybody using cellphones in
1986. Additionally more people have Starbucks in their car, and are eating
and doing more things in their cars that they didn't do 15 years or so ago.

All in all the more brake lights on the rear of a car the better. Of course
that only counts if people would get off their ass and check for burned out
bulbs once in a great while.

And LED brake lights come on a fraction of a second quicker than standard
bulb lights. Although this doesn't seem like a big deal even 1/10th of a
second at 60mph is equal to about 10 feet of distance covered on the road.
(60 mph x 1.49 feet per second is about 90 feet per second traveled divided
by 10) That is enough to prevent an accident.



CaptainKrunch

 

It is my understanding that while the center brake lights reduced the

Makes good sense, as do the other posts: I understand it adds no aero
function. So, no aero benefit, and no safety benefit = nix the
spoiler.

I was just at a local dealer, and took an Accord MT6 for a spin. What
fun! So much for thoughts about a TSX. I think I definitely need the
torque and HP that the V6 gives!

Tnx.

 

Don't forget the increase in SUVs and minivans blocking the vision of
following traffic. And also, the increase in SUVs and minivans with
long stopping distances.

I think that one of the biggest benefits of the center mounted brake
light is that it is not infrequently the only one that is operational.
I think that Fords should be required to have eight or nine of these
things on separate circuits.

 

Fyi, some manufacturer put spoilers on their cars to reduce drag. Please, do
some research about it so that you know better...

Here is 1 such manufacturer

http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en/home/siteHelp/sitehelp_glossary.jsp?section=all&alpha=s_u

Lexus.com blows my viewer, so I couldn't get better links.

 

"Integrated Rear Spoiler
Changes airflow direction to reduce lift and aerodynamic drag."

Bullshit!!!

That's advertising agency flackery, not engineering data.

 

Well if you are saying that spoilers have no appreciable effect on a car and
how it handles airflow then I would have to pose a question such as why
would an $80,000 Porsche have a speed sensitive spoiler? Just for looks? I
don't think so. Why would a $300,000 Bugatti have a spoiler? For looks? I
don't think so.

The $375,000 Maybach doesn't have a spoiler though. I imagine because the
people that buy that car are in it completely for the luxury car look and
the spoiler might spoil that. Pardon the pun.

CaptainKrunch

 

Wings produce lift, causing drag. Wings, aka spoilers, in these particular positions, being mounted
BELOW the high roof, are not always in wing mode. Hence, they are not always causing drag.

If you put a wing in a box, how much lift/drag would it produce? Would it be the remotely equivalent
to mounting it to the side? How about mounting it behind the box?

 

Because that's a REAL spoiler that DOES work. And the overturned
teaspoon shape of a Porche really needs it (ever drive a Volkswagen in
a crosswind?) The one on the back of a SAAB is a real spoiler too.
Notice that neither looks anything like the excrescences found these
days on every tiddly 4-door jellybean. The latter are about as
effective as the stupid fins Detroit was in love with a few decades
back.

 

The so-called spoilers found on cars these days aren't wings. They
don't have an airfoil cross section. Even though the device is mounted
below the roof line, there's lots of air flowing down over the rear
window and off the trunk, and anything sticking out in the airstream
causes drag.

Except for real spoilers mounted on up-market sportscars, the spoilers
found on cars these days have one purpose and one purpose only. To
satisfy the demands of customers who think they look racey.

 

Unless a vehicle is capable of speeds above 150 MPH, where
the spoiler is intended to add down force to the rear of the
vehicle, the only benefit of a spoiler is cosmetic. As the
the height of the third stop light, a federal regulation sets
the minimum and maximum height for its location.



mike hunt

 

Yet again, our village idiot talks out his ass.

NASCAR, Formula, SCAA, CART and many other sanctioning racing bodies, have
shown via wind tunnel tests, that read deck spoilers can have a handling
effect on a car at as low as 80 mph.

With that said Mikey...please provide the group with the source of your "150
MPH" information.

Failure to do so will only result in *PROOF*, that you again, have made up
another LIE.


--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

 

You state that like it is a law of physics that wings have no effect
at less than 150mph. Lots of airplanes fly at speeds lower than that.

I don't know if the wing on my GS-R (or any production car) has any
effect at any speed, but given your track record on facts, I would
recommend that everyone ignore just about anything you say.

 

For a fellow that doesn't know the difference between a wing
designed for lift and one designed to produce down force, it
would behoove you to do a bit of research before you choose to
post, once again, on a subject of which you apparently have
little or no knowledge..


mike hunt

 

Other than the obvious difference (orientation), please enlighten us.

 

If one actually took the time to do the research, rather than
just type in a few acronyms and look stupid once again, that
person would find the proof one needs. Wings that develop any
meaningful down force at lower speeds are large wings like those
on the roofs of dirt track cars, not small tail wings that were
part of the discussion. Except for looking cool, a high mount
tail wing on the back an under powered small car it not good for
much more than towing ones skateboard buds, dude.



mike hunt

 

LOL!

It *IS* the exact same principal. A "spoiler" by definition, *IS* an
upside-down wing.

Aerodynamically, they work the same way, and cause the same effect, other
than one "lifts up" and the other "pushes down".

So Mikey...where did you get the "150 MPH" figure/information?

Man I love to see this clown squirming after being caught in a lie! [huge
grin]

--
'03 S2000
'94 Accord

It's just about going fast...that's all...

http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/