Repeatedly Running On A Low Tank?

eh? what makes the wipers move? do you have a pedal under the dash?

 

three replies to the same post? what is it with you???

 

why is everyone so hung up on immersion? gasoline isn't exactly the
greatest cooling liquid because it has a low specific heat capacity.
what's important is circulation /within/ the pump, not /without/.

 

Not this car...'88 Supra, still has a metal tank.

 

of course it is - that whole charade was just the dealer looking to jerk
off toyota or you for the replacement. running dry isn't going to put
holes in a filter - nor will particles. and particles don't suddenly
appear when the tank is dry - they're there all the time.

as for the rest of the pump, running dry tends to stop once the engine
stops running, so it's not like the motor has 100+ hours of non-fueled
running in it. in fact, there was probably more contamination to the
system from disassembly than anything else!

next time, if there is a next time, just gas the thing up and forget
about it.

 

Hi!

Just out of pure curiosity, did that supplier have a name and can you say
who it was?

William

 

The low fuel light sensor is separate from the fuel pump and fuel level
sender.

Rusty fuel tank particles will not cut a hole in a Toyota fuel filter
although it could theoretically clog it. It is very unusual for a fuel tank
from the inside out, since the fuel acts as a rust inhibitor. When fuel
tanks rust to the point of perforation, it is generally from the outside in,
not inside out. If there was rust in your Goldwing's fuel tank, I'd guess
that the tank was left empty for a long time or the particles were
introduced from an exterior source like a rusty gas can. Gas stations
generally filter the fuel before delivering it to vehicles, so it is not
likely that the rust came from the gas station.

 

Running the pump dry repeatedly will eventually ruin the pump, but once or
twice probably won't cause a problem. Having holes in the fuel tank can
introduce a lot of moisture in the tank, and of course, the gas fumes that
could escape from the holes are not the best thing to have in a garage.

 

I couldn't open the link, but I'll take your word for it and eat some crow
;-)

 

I didn't realize that I addressed that. Frankly, my working with the
tier 1 manufacturers was the opposite - they wanted things to last as
long as possible. I never saw pressure to design to fail soon after the
warranty duration or things of that nature. However there were things,
like annual 5% price cuts on parts forced on suppliers by Ford that had
the unintended consequence of resulting in bad designs and bad/blatantly
faked quality control on the line (think "Explorer/Firestone").

Again, I didn't see that as an overt goal on the engineering side. But
I did see cost cutting that had the same or more devastating results as
an unintended consequence - the Ford dictated cost cuts that I mentioned
and the GM PICOS program left over from the Lopez days. Uncontrolled
MBA's are bad for a company overall.

I have no problem with you saying that - but be clear that you are not
attributing that to me. Not saying you were, but someone might read it
as such.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Exactly.

Plus, as I've previously stated, the pumps are designed with the pumping
section at the very bottom. When you run it out of gas, there is a
solid column of fuel all the way from the pumping section, thru the
pump, to the injectors. The air starts at the very bottom of the
pumping section, with the column of fuel "dancing" on the pumping
element (whatever it might be) - and that's even if the pump keeps
running - which it doesn't.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Three separate 'ideas'. Wanted to make sure you didn't get too confused.
It seems to happen to you quite often.

 

You're right. You wait until it's full of metal particles and starts to
gel...

 

how would /you/ know? you don't test! it's like saying you /know/ how
much gas is in the tank without looking at the gauge!

and metal particles don't cause gelling - it's water vapor condensation
acting with oil detergent from insufficient warmup - the same kind of
reaction that creates mayonnaise. unless the filter is so clogged it's
in bypass mode, or its got a defective drainback valve, metal particles
reside in oil filters where it's safe.

 

so you make three separate trips to the supermarket in one day? that's
not too smart.

btw, don't accuse me of /your/ confusion problem. see above. thanks.

 

but did you not have mileage/hour lifetime specs? you pretty much have
to if you're cutting everything down to the bleeding edge - what you
were doing. otherwise you'd be there with a much more robust design
able to withstand all operating conditions with 100% reliability.

the exploder was an unspeakable shameful debacle. no vehicle should
roll just because of a flat. period. firestone had nothing to do with
it. and no vehicle should have the cabin crush, even if it does roll.

this behavior was known before the exploder even shipped. this whole
thing was a disgraceful political whitewash with thousands of innocent
american families killed or maimed. just because some unscrupulous jerk
did the math on projected profits exceeding projected compensation
payouts. the "investigation" was a sham and our representatives hosed
us. if i had my way, there would be asses in the electric chair. enron
pales in significance.

no, not you. but the general bleating here before you came along was
the usual misguided crap about immersion, with people citing failures
for specific vehicles and trying to extrapolate to the whole population.
i'm grateful you injected some reason into the debate.

 

Hi,
In cold weather too low fuel in the tank causes condensation which leads
to water. There is high possibility at the bottom of tank is some water.
I never go lower than 1/4 full on gauge at any time year round. If
liquid sloshes around, there is a possibility the pump can run dry
momentarily or water can be sucked in. Also there could be some rust
particles/debris which could cause clog. Just my two bits.

 

jim's right. Real-world data relating wear to oil change
frequency agree that wear is greatest for some time just after
an oil change.

"Testing with partially stressed oil, which contained some wear
debris, produced less wear than testing with clean oil. This
finding was unexpected and initially confusing (further inquiry
suggested that the result was not so surprising, as many oil
chemistries require time and temperature to enhance their
effectiveness)."
http://www.swri.org/3pubs/IRD1999/03912699.htm

"Contrary to common perception, changing oil more often than
recommended has been shown to increase engine wear. An ongoing
University of Michigan study has shown that the greatest wear
occurs in the first 3000km of an oil's life in any engine!"
http://tinyurl.com/32653c

John