Repeatedly Running On A Low Tank?

I would think not just assembly costs, but overall costs - a pump n the
tank, I would think, should be able to utilize a cheaper and lighter casing
as it does not need to stand up to the elements any longer. FWIW, it would
also result in fewer connection points outside the tank, thereby allowing
for fewer failure points.

 

Most gastanks (storage/underground) are fiberglass, but one of the
biggest manufacturers of tanks in Canada, Clemmer Industries is about
a mile from my home and made 10s of thousands of steel underground
storage tanks (as well as above ground) over the years. There are
still some double wall steel tanks made, but I think they are all for
above ground use.

They make the glass ones now too - I think they are wound glass.

 

Not totally true. Vapour lock/Cavitation on the INLET side of the pump
HAS been a problem with electric fuel pumps, both carbureted and (more
commonly) fuel injected. The fuel at reduced pressure on the inlet
boils at a significantly reduced temperature - and pumps have a lot of
trouble pumping vapour.

 

I suspect that most, if not all, of the underground tanks around here were
changed over to the fiberglass kind because the penalties and cleanup costs
from a leaking underground storage tank could easily exceed the cost of
installing a newer tank with leak detection sensors.

It doesn't look like any tanks are taken off-line here either, probably
because they don't want to lose the income.

 

Unfortunately, they are on the top of the tank, and dirt collects there.
Then the dirt gets wet in the rain and corrodes the send/return tubes. I
had to pull the tank on my Supra 3 times, and we used kid gloves around
the fitting, since they were pretty 'tender'.

 

I don't know about that...

If you read the instructions, you soak the filter with oil before
installing it. The oil helps the material catch dirt.

I had an old Yamaha MC that had a foam and oil filter, and it was a dirt
bike to boot. At about 50,000 miles I tore the engine down, bored and
honed and fitted a new piston and rings. There wasn't a lot of wear, and
most of what was there was from being a 2 stroke.

The key is keeping the filter oiled. Their recommendation was 12 months or
12,000 miles, I did it every other oil change (as Dim beam can tell you,
every 6,000 miles...)

I would also remove the tube and have a look, and it was no dirtier than
the stock air box.

 

au contraire, that's /your/ problem. and worse, you can't even use google.

 

no, i'm serious. you need to work with a professional.

 

the pushing side isn't the problem - as you say, line pressure cures all.

doesn't work, unfortunately.

other way about. it's got to work first, cut costs a [close] second.
you could have longer suction lines with minimal rise back in the old
days of block-mounted mechanical fuel pumps, but those tanks were open
to atmosphere and thus not subject to vacuum like they are today. once
you start sucking hard, especially on a warm day, from a tank that's
already at negative pressure, you only need evolution of a small vapor
bubble to cause a major fuel delivery problem. making sure practically
/all/ the fuel delivery line is pressurized is the cure, and we now know
the best way to achieve that.

 

subjective waffle. define. quantify.

no, 2-stroke does not necessarily mean wear.

1. the pores remain the same size, regardless of oil content. that
defines particle size.

2. oil filters let though more dirt as the flow rate increases. that's
why paper filters are used so much these days - filtration remains the
same regardless of flow rate.

that's not quantitative.

 

That too - yes - fewer connection points help in reliability *and* they
help in initial assembly costs (the more important factor to the auto
manufacturer) - less line items to receive in, inventory, control, move
around, connect up, etc. in their plant.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

See: http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

The paper that came with the K&N I used to use said it was not
recommended in areas with "agricultural dust". Makes sense - you can
imagine a lot of dust wicking up the oil very quickly and then
subsequent dust zipping on thru the holes.

I work in a mining area with lots of dust. After I read that study, I
went back to a good paper filter.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I am a professional. There's a name for it. Are you now using a body
hammer with a sharp point on it?

 

Sure I can. Why would I have to?

 

I didn't have that problem. I had read all the evidence pro and con and
kept a good eye on the filter. It never got really dirty.

Had a lot of bugs in it, though!

 

Oh, sure it doesn't. That's why they have to be torn down and honed
occasionally.

The oil traps the finer particles. That why Yamamha used this system on
their dirt bikes. It allowed performance without sacrificing the engine.

Of course, you had to maintain the filter on a regular basis. They gave a
recommendation as to how often to check the filter. I checked the filter
more often than recommended, and cleaned it more often than recommended.
Most people would follow the recommendation. Of course, some would have
the filter analyzed and then go double the manufacturer's recommendation.

No, it's preventative.

I was talking to a maintenance guy at a State Police barracks the other
day. He said they change the oil in the cruisers every 3,000 miles. I
said, but those are mostly high-speed, highway miles. Isn't that kind of
driving better for the motors and the oil?

Sure, but we would rather do PM and make sure the cars are OK than have to
tear an engine down and replace a lot of parts. It's cheaper and easier to
just change the oil every 3,000 miles.

What do you think of someone who changes his oil every 12,000 miles based
on a couple of analysis?

That guy's a fool...

 

Several years ago (>10?) the EPA required all underground tanks that
were of steel construction be replaced with fiberglass. They had to
be put into vaults that would contain any leakage and they had to have
remote monitoring of product and/or leak detection.

The company I used to work for had underground diesel storage tanks
for their emergency generators. Almost all of them had to be pulled
and replaced. The company elected to replace them with above-ground
vaults. They also installed Veeder-Root (sp) remote monitoring
stations.

I would be very surprised if you could find any metal underground
storage tanks at any gas stations today in the USofA.

Jack

 

Most cars used an oil-bath air cleaner up until about 1955. It was a
round tank with a "U" profile. A matching, inverted tank was inserted
in the first tank. The first tank held about a pint of engine oil and
the second tank was packed with steel wool. The air made two 180
degree shifts in direction which helped to drop the dust and dirt into
the oil. Vibration would splash the oil up on the steel wool which
also helped filter the air.

The filter system worked great but took some maintenance at each oil
change and it generated some additional dirty oil. It was also
expensive to produce compared with paper filters.

Jack

 

Hah! As a teenager, I drove a 1965 International Travelall that had
that type of oil bath air cleaner as well as the canister type oil
filter that preceded the screw-on type filters. I learned early how to
get my hands dirty!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

"Ray O" ...

I see all the time stations with a tanker filling up the tank in the ground
and half a dozen cars filling up at the pumps at that same moment. It is
one of the things I look for in pulling into a station and hoping that one
did not just leave.
Tomes