Replace timing belt? ? ?

I have a 2001 Honda with 90,000 miles, and I'd like to keep it for another
five years.

I had some recall work done yesterday, and the dealer told me the car was
overdue by two years for a recommended replacement of timing belt with
water-pump seals.

Should I have this work done, or is it just a Honda grab for maintenance
that's really unnecessary?

 

If it were a "grab", it wouldn't be a "Honda" grab, but a "dealer" grab.
The dealer is a totally separate company from Honda. But it's not a "grab".

I'd get the work done as per the dealer's recommendation, along with the
water pump, which lives under the timing belt.

Your maintenance schedule is 7 years and 105K miles. You're not quite there
with mileage, but are 2 years over for time. In theory, you could chance
leaving it for another year or two, but...

Look at it this way: The current belt will not go another five years
without serious risk of failure, so you're replacing it at some point
anyway in the next few years.

So, two scenarios:
1) If you get it done now, not only do you eliminate the risk of getting
stranded, or of expensive valve damage, but you get five years out of the
expenditure before you get rid of the car.
2) If you wait another year or two, you're running the risk of getting
stranded, or of suffering valve damage, plus when you get rid of the car
you've only got three or four years out of your expenditure.

 

Failure of the timing belt can result in significant damage to the
engine so replacing it at the recommended intervals is a wise
investment. Changing the water pump seals is a good idea since they
are in the ‘neighborhood’ and easily added to the job.

This job does not need to be performed by the dealer. It can be
performed by any good mechanic with the proper tools and knowledge.
You can save some money by using someone other than a dealer but,
obviously, make sure the shop is competent.

 

Thanks. I'll get the work done now, although the price of $900 seems steep
to me. I probably could get it done cheaper at Midas or some other discount
shop, but I think I'll go to the Honda dealer.

 

Thanks -- I'll certainly consider that. The Honda place is quoting $900,
which seems high to me.

 

I like the way you think, Tegger. Great advice. What's your feeling on
the seals vs water pump? Ray mentions the seals but everything I've
read to date is water pump as in the complete unit. My thought is that
tossing a new pump in while "in the neighborhood" is doing the job right.

What say you?

 

I'd certainly shop that job. The price seems high to me as well. I'm a
couple years away from the job on my 2006 Accord with 58k and I seem to
recall seeing prices for timing belt and the entire water pump quoted in
the $600 range (or was that wishful dreaming?).

 

SNIP>
Get on the phone and call a few dealers. You might be surprised and the
difference in prices. More than $200 between top to bottom when I did it.
On this job I'd try to stick with a dealer-certainly wouldn't go to a Midas
or one similar.
MLD

 

There's always Jiffy Lube! That way you could get your transmission AND
rear differential flushed at the same time. They'll probably
re-energize your headlights and torque your framis for free. <g>

 

Time to hijack this thread!

My Mazda snapped the timing belt at less than 30K miles a couple of
years ago. I am assuming it was a defective belt, as a new belt fixed
the problem and it has not broken since.

Additional details: The timing belt, tension pulleys and water pump were
all replaced, then the belt broke early, (less than 2 years and less
than 30K miles), and I only replaced the belt after it broke, so I don't
think it was a problem with anything other than the belt itself. All of
the parts were Mazda OEM.

When this happened, the engine simply stopped, and there was no damage
at all.

My question is, why does my Honda engine (possibly) suffer damage when
the timing belt breaks and the Mazda engine does not?

I understand interference versus non-interference engines, what I am
wondering is why any engines are designed to suffer damage when the
timing belt breaks, since this is obviously not the way that the engine
has to be made.

Is there an advantage performance-wise to having the engine designed to
semi-self destruct when a timing belt snaps? Is it possibly cheaper to
design and/or build?

Thanks!

Pat

 

What he said. You should be able to find a fully competent mechanic who
will do the job for quite a bit less money.

I am not completely against using the dealership, but the mechanics
there are not always the best, (it can be hit or miss), and the prices
that a dealership charges is usually on the upper end for standard
mechanic work, at least in my experience.

Good luck!

Pat

 

I'm due in 2011 and my dealer wants $900.
There is four hours of labor just for the belt.

 

Good question. I thought maybe using an interference design had
something to do with better volumetric efficiency. Here is what I
found so far:

"The benefits of [the interference engine] design are a closer
tolerance, shorter engine, more freedom in combustion chamber design
and valve angle." from http://paultan.org/car-jargon/

But also:
" ... [P]revious split-cycle engines have had problems relating to
poor breathing (volumetric efficiency) and low thermal efficiency.The
breathing problem [volumetric efficiency] is caused by the high-
pressure gas trapped in the compression cylinder. This trapped high-
pressure gas needs to expand before another charge of air can be drawn
into the compression cylinder, which effectively reduces the engine's
capacity to pump air and results in poor volumetric efficiency.
Scuderi's engine solves the breathing problem by reducing the
clearance between the piston and the cylinder head to less than 1mm.
This design requires the use of valves that open outwards, enabling
the piston to move very close to the cylinder head without
interference with the valves. Almost 100 per cent of the compressed
air from the compression cylinder is therefore pushed into the
crossover passage." from
http://www.engineerlive.com/Design-Engineer/Automotive_Design/Alternatives_to_four-stroke_engines_promise_an_increase_in_efficiency/22066/

 

Good question. I thought maybe using an interference design had
something to do with better volumetric efficiency. Here is what I
found so far:

"The benefits of [the interference engine] design are a closer
tolerance, shorter engine, more freedom in combustion chamber design
and valve angle." from http://paultan.org/car-jargon/

But also:
" ... [P]revious split-cycle engines have had problems relating to
poor breathing (volumetric efficiency) and low thermal efficiency.The
breathing problem [volumetric efficiency] is caused by the high-
pressure gas trapped in the compression cylinder. This trapped high-
pressure gas needs to expand before another charge of air can be drawn
into the compression cylinder, which effectively reduces the engine's
capacity to pump air and results in poor volumetric efficiency.
Scuderi's engine solves the breathing problem by reducing the
clearance between the piston and the cylinder head to less than 1mm.
This design requires the use of valves that open outwards, enabling
the piston to move very close to the cylinder head without
interference with the valves. Almost 100 per cent of the compressed
air from the compression cylinder is therefore pushed into the
crossover passage." from
http://www.engineerlive.com/Design-Engineer/Automotive_Design/Alterna...

 

My understanding is that the whole water pump is replaced along with the
cam/crank seals.

JT

 

Yes, this is a labor intensive task.

With my old relic Civics, it is about one an a half hours. But the
modern stuff has lost all properties of simplification...

JT

 

I think the "seals" mentioned are actually the crank and cam oil seals. If
you're diligent with your oil changes, and the seals are not found to be
seeping when exposed on disassembly, then you don't really need to change
them.

The water pump is a complete unit; its seals are not serviceable. The water
pump should be replaced with every timing belt change.

 

Depending where you live, there is a good chance you could find a
competent independent shop that specializes in Japanese cars. Such shops
do the work usually for much less and often better as well. I found mine
through this web site:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/find.html
I think I found this site on this news group.

 

4-cylinder Accords have a balancer belt in addition to the timing belt. V6
Accords have a lot of stuff to take apart before the belt can be replaced.
You want a cheap belt change? Get a Civic.

In any case, eventually this problem will go away, for most people. New
cars are all using chains now.

 

2006? I assume this is a V6? The 4-banger on that version is chain-driven.