sheet metal of new cars & door dings, whats the best solution?

Is it just me, or are new cars coming off the assembly line with sheet
metal that is more fragile to door dings, dents from rocks etc.
I own a 2003 accord and already I have 4 dings! My early 90s GM cars
had no dings even after 5 years. In the past with my 95 Honda, I used
one of those local places that popped back the dings with a small set
of tools. The cost wasnt bad, but in sunlight you can see the flaws in
the sheet metal quite easily. Is there a reasonable cost process to
removing sheet metal dings that looks near perfect?

 

Approximately 8/19/03 16:06, Sanjay Punjab uttered for posterity:

Is not just you. The more metal that can be removed, the better
the gas mileage, which allows more of the bigger highly profitable
vehicles to be built.

Suspect there isn't much cost saving in metal, actually suspect it
may cost *more* to build with the thinnest panels possible.

 

Yes, the sheet metal does seem to be getting thinner these days. I remember
when I took delivery of my new 99 Accord, the salesman warned me about where
to place my hand when closing the trunk. Push in the wrong place in the
wrong way, I could dent the metal. Really! It's like this all over the car:
If you push gently with your thumb on the front fender, that is enough to
leave a visible indentation. (Warning: Don't do this with your car!)

The best policy is to park your car away from other cars wherever you go.
And park in a covered garage if hail is expected, otherwise you'll have a
dimpled roof.

 

I know when getting replacement body panels for classic cars they are often
not as thick as originals. I can sit on either of my Galaxies on any part of
them or lean on them and the body panels will not be pushed in, however,
with some new cars if I so muhc as lean against the rear quarter panel while
pumping gas it will pop in and then pop out when I stand up again. Then you
have Saturn and otehrs just using plastic for body panels. After all, it
amkes sense since the sheetmatal is so thin anymore. Plastic will not dent
or scratch as easily with minor parking lot type dings. If someone epens
their door into it the plastic will usually just pop right back out.

 

It also means less weight, which helps with CAFE.
--
Brandon Sommerville
remove ".gov" to e-mail

Definition of "Lottery":
Millions of stupid people contributing
to make one stupid person look smart.

 

Thinner metal is on reason. The bigger problem is the amount of people who
just don't give a shit and don't respect the property of others in the
parking lot. Two weeks ago I had an argument with an idiot who claimed she
didn't hit my car while my paint and a small piece of pin striping were
hanging from the corner of her door...

 

This is just a guess, but I would venture that this may be a safety issue. If
the sheet metal crumples, it absorbs the energy transmitted by the object
that strikes it. If it stays rigid, it transmits that energy to the
occupant of the vehicle. I would rather my car take the blow than my
internal organs. Of course, on the other hand, if my car was worth $100k
instead of $2k, I might have a different opinion with regard to the value
of my life vs. the value of my car.

 

Approximately 8/21/03 00:39, Marc uttered for posterity:

As kids, we used to use old car hoods as very rugged sledding
devices. Things just wouldn't bend. Don't think I'd care to
try it with a modern hood.

 

*boggle*

That's right; it'd be much better to dent a car belonging to
a random stranger. Nice to see that you have so much respect
for other people's property.



Geoff

 

Could it be part of the plan to make the front end crumple in an impact?
It seems that every accident I see lately totals the car. I also see
many more of them opened up like tin cans to extricate the victims.

Sorry, give me something with a good solid chassis and heavy sheet
metal. But they're getting harder and harder to find.

 

Actually I doubt that. It's the frames, or subframes rather, that are
designed to crumble. The sheet metal will crumble plenty easily in an
accident on an old car. It's not the strongest stuff, but will take normal
use just fine (i.e. sitting on hood or roof at drive-ins, leaning on car,
etc.). In an accident it will get beat, but minor parking lot type accidents
typically won't do so much damage as they do to modern cars. Like someone
else mentioned, it's probably to lose weight from the car for better fuel
mileage. Damned CAFE standards are ludicrous, they killed off station
wagons, which were great cars that got good mileage, in favor of SUVs, which
don't perform nearly as well and get terrible mileage.

Yep, that's how I feel. If I'm in an accident I want a car after it's
over... Of course I'd like to live too, but you get the idea. My '68 has a
nice safety feature my '67 doesn't... Two actually, a collapsible steering
column, and shoulder belts. I sometimes wonder how much better off I am with
a shoulder belt when I've got no head restraint. My neck will be broken in a
high speed accident either way... LOL Seriously though, I'd imagine it would
prevent some back damage, though whiplash would likely be pretty bad.

 

Have you ever seen the results of classic cars in accidents? Here's one
picture...

http://www.ford-registry.com/images/PG%20Not%20Yet%20Registered/1967_Ford_C5004DS_01_Meets_Tree.jpg

That's a '67 Ford Custom that hit a tree at 65 MPH. Can't see too well since
it's dark but it appears that although the front is smashed pretty bad the
passenger compartment is intact. As long as the steering gearbox wasn't hit
the driver may have lived. If the driver opted for shoulder belts when he
bought it I'm positive he did, though that's quite unlikely. I've only seen
a handfull '67 full-size Fords with the optional shoulder belts.

To compare, here is a shot of an '87 Nova that hit a tree at 35 MPH. Driver
broke her knee and finger. The damage to this car appears to be of similar
magnitude to that of the old Ford.

http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/accident_story/1-31-02_tree.html

Now here's an '80s Camaro put thorugh a tree at 70-80 MPH. Suffered much
worse damage than the old Ford, but the occupants were relatively unharmed.
If they were going any faster though, it looks like the passenger
compartment would have crumbled far enough to take them out.

http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/accident_story/12-28-01.html

Here's another...
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/accident_story/7-11-01_tree.html


Here is one of a cop who was speeding in the fog and hit a cow. Bad cop, no
doughnut! Doubt he wrote himself a summons.
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/pics/crash60.jpg

 

First a disclaimer about my response to this: I may well be wrong about my
claims with regard to the thickness of the sheet metal. Somebody pointed out,
in another post in this thread, that it is mainly the frame of the car that
crumples, and not the body.

That said: You are correct in identifying breach of the passenger compartment
as a contributing factor to injury in accidents. But just because the
passengers are not struck by anything doesn't mean that they will survive.
Like I said, the energy transmitted through the car and into the passengers
can often be enough to kill them, even if they are not crushed or struck.
This is why there are crumple zones. Something has to absorb the energy and
get destroyed. Better the car than me.

 

minivans killed off wagons, and SUVs killed off minivans. CAFE had nothing
to do with that.

 

Not a random stranger - give it a try down at your friendly neighborhood Honda
stealership, preferably the one that raped you on your last new car deal.

 

My husband's phrase for this is "better tin than skin".

Our worst accident came when we weren't wearing seatbelts -- yet we
survived.

It helped that the car was parked but we were not in it at the time.
I got a good chance to see the inner workings of a Honda Civic's crumple
zones.

Some 17-year-old hod-rodder was seeing how quickly he could do the
quarter-mile down my aunts' street, and I ended up with my new
(six-month old!) Civic's bumper in the back seat when he miscalculated
the width of the street.

You know you're in trouble when the cop greets you at the accident scene
with "Not *you* again?!"

He wasn't wearing his seatbelt. His land yacht (don't remember what it
was, besides honkin' big) wasn't much damaged, except for the windshield
where his head had cracked it.

For all the non-parked vehicular accidents we've been in, we've worn our
seatbelts, and were grateful for having done so.

With the totaled Civic, my husband was impressed that even the gas tank
was okay. He was ready with the kitty litter, to absorb the spilled
gas, but there wasn't any.

 

Agreed. The only minor point is that a flaw in the cafe regulations
excluded many SUVs as trucks, but I believe that mini-vans (not
regular vans) were included. Is that correct? If so, it would cause an
ironic shift towards less fuel efficient vehicles.

Anyway, wagons are coming back at a rapid pace. And several new SUVs
are morphing towards looking more and more like .... well, a wagon.

 

The station wagon configuration is the superior vehicle for
typical suburban and urban usage IMO and that SUVs never knocked it from
the top spot until CAFE regulation came into play. So it's no surprise to
me that this is the direction of evolution.

The reason for the wagon comeback is that automakers are finding ways
to still classify them as trucks ala the PT cruiser.... The PT cruiser
is really just a small sedan delivery type vehicle. I guess the 1960s
version would be a falcon or corvair wagon with steel panels instead
of the rearmost side windows.

The funniest thing is that AMC was ahead of the curve on this with their
early 1980s 4WD station wagons.... (they showed a minivan in the 1970s
during the van craze but didn't have the money to tool it up.)

 

SUV's killed off minivans??? Is that why they're as rare as seeing
stationwagons on the road these days?

 

Cheaper and more likely to make you so dissatisfied with your cosmetically
imperfect car that you'll go out and buy a brand new one to replace it.
The sensible thing is to just go out and key it yourself before you even
get it home -- then you can stop worrying about it.

See above.

No, you can't have my '70 orange crumple-dented Dodge pickup! I know the
theory that the car structure is supposed to sacrifice itself to save the
passengers, but I don't believe a bit of it. The sturdier the metal the
less likely it's going to be pushed in by a tiny little car made of
aluminum foil.

I've noticed that it's really easy to change lanes with the pickup, and I
conclude it's because people look at me and just KNOW that I don't have
insurance!

--
Cheers,
Bev
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"Once you've provoked a few people into publicly swearing they are going
to hunt you down and kill you, the thrill wears off." -Elric of Imrryr