Group question! (btw...THANKS to everyone on the wiper question) I only have 60K miles on the car, mostly city driving, when can I expect to have to replace the shocks and/or struts? The ride and handling are still good. Do the shocks and struts just "blow out" suddenly, or do they deteriorate quickly over a period of time? TIA. -- "This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that, all options are on the table," George Bush, Feb 22 2005 http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm "Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim
Depends where you live but that suspension system is prone to broken front springs in the frost belt - the spring breaks just where it enters the perch on the shock. Because of where the break is, you probably won't even notice any difference in ride/handling but you might hear a "doink" when you get out of the car on the side with the break; you'd definitely hear the "doink... doink" when you jack the front up. The break *can* put some side force on the shock which will wear it out quicker. Unless you drive on rough roads a lot, the shocks could last the life of the car... or at least till suspension ball joints or bushings need replaced, i.e. well into the 100-200K mile range. BTW the often-mentioned bounce test doesn't tell you anything about shock absorber condition, unless they're really shot - a better criterion is extended stopping distance on a rippled surface... or wallowing on corners and freeway undulations. Note that with the Honda double-wishbone setup, the shock absorber only has to do one thing: damp suspension motions... unlike a MacPherson strut system where the shock turns with the steering, acts as a suspension locating member and gets all sorts of other stresses from those actions.... damn Earle MacPherson.
The only time I broke a spring on my '93 Accord, it was at the other end of the coil, at the top where it enters the strut mount. But I think this was the result of that corner of the car jumping a huge curb while swerving to avoid a bad driver. I'm not fully awake yet. I thought this said "damn Elle McPherson".
Thanks! ;-) -- "This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that, all options are on the table," George Bush, Feb 22 2005 http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm "Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim
The break often happens on a violent bump but the root cause is usually weakening of the metal due to corrosion where water/salt gets through a hole in the epoxy coating of the spring. The upper spring seat has a rubber doughnut in it so there's no wear of the epoxy there. I've heard of the upper end going but AFAIK the lower is more common because of epoxy wearing away where it contacts the metal of the perch. If you live in a "corrosion area" it's worth checking springs for nicks in the epoxy... which *can* be caused by some of the (cruder) tools used to compress the spring, e.g. when swapping shocks.
i've seen brand new springs with such nicks. bad [neglectful] handling handling at the factory. as you say, corrosion pitting starts & that causes a stress riser that initiates fatigue. it's the fatigue cracking that kills the spring.
Funny thing is I've always thought that spring metal can easily be made fairly corrosion resistant. If Honda thinks they can skip that because of the epoxy coating, somebody there is dreaming. The Lyle tool I used to replace my springs really did a number on the brand new spring coating - tried to patch with epoxy glue and hoping it'll hold for a bit.
That's where mine broke. And mine were silent; no *doink* noise. Never even knew until I checked than at the next brake service. It's funny, but the replacement springs now have more miles and years on them than the originals that broke. I wonder if Honda fixed a quality problem somewhere...
sure, there's all kinds of non-ferrous springs, but they're fiercely expensive. i know honda springs don't seem "cheap", but believe me, they are compared to the alternatives. also bear in mind that steel is relatively high modulus compared to other materials and silicon/carbon steel typically used in auto springs has a very high yield point compared to most fatigue resistant stainless steels. lastly, spring wire has to be comparatively soft for the forming phase, then heat treatable to become hard and resistant to yielding. stainless steels exist that have these kinds of hardening reactions, but they're a big step up in cost. just rust resistant paint works fine. trouble is, once you have some corrosion, you have pitting & therefore potential fatigue crack initiation. strictly speaking, springs in that condition should be replaced, but i can't say i'm a strict adherant to that rule. depends on mileage & condition. interesting you mention the lisle tool. i was extremely unimpressed with the principle of that device, for the reasons you're describing happened. i therefore built my own - does not touch the spring at all! i'll email a photo to tegger.
I wasn't talking about stainless or non-ferrous - there are alloys of of "steel" which corrode much more slowly than others. This is a problem which, while not unique to Honda, is a rather glaring one... not to mention that the epoxy coating seems like a bad idea, given the evidence. Did you miss something here? This was a brand new spring which was marred by the tool - no question of corrosion having started. I chose it because it *looks* safer than some others, since the loops cannot break loose from the spring coils under load. I found on use that the screws "machine" a "thread" into the collars, thus reducing their effective thickness - IOW safety may not be what it appears.
well sure, there are /many/ aloys of steel, but the key one in this application is the ability to heat treat to something with a very high yield point, yet not be brittle that definitely could do with some work. honda don't actually make springs - they buy them in. find out who the supplier is. seems it's designed for operator safety at the time of service, not subsequent fatigue damage safety.
