Some ruminations on antifreeze

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Cliff Freeling, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. Cliff Freeling

    Jimmy Guest

    Sorry, you're wrong. There is hard data. *GM* admits this in a variety
    of FACTORY bulletins concerning issues with contamination from solder
    flash, factory sealers, and even contamination from simple air in the
    systems. Aside from the factory issues that they own up to, they claim
    that the "air in the system" problem is poor maintenance on the part
    of owners who let the coolant level get too low. Probably true, but
    I've never see that problem with any other anti-freeze. FWIW, the
    problems appear to be with DEXcool/Havoline only, not all carbo
    organic acid products. YMMV. Use at your own risk.

    Also, folks here seem to be grouping anti-freeze into only
    two categories. There are actually 3 or 4 major categories. One is
    the EG w/high silicate products that are not recommended (by most
    manufacturers) in any recent vehicle. Next are the EG Hybrid Organic
    Acid Technology products like Valvoline G05. These are recommended by
    Ford, Chrysler/Damlier, and some European manufacturers. They contain
    low (not no) silicate, and low or no phosphate. They are an easy
    conversion from EG products without a lot of contamination issues.
    Last are the Carbo Organic Acid products like Dexcool. These are
    no-silicate and no-phosphate but may have some problems (Dexcool
    definitely has problems). Conversion requires a serious flush and
    contamination is a major concern. There is a fourth category -
    the Nissan/Honda no silicate products. I haven't been able to find
    an MSDS on these so I can't tell you exactly what they are composed
    of. I suspect they are a HOAT but I don't know what the anti-corrosion
    package is.

    Don't read a lot into actual colors, they are not that definitive.
     
    Jimmy, Jan 16, 2004
    #21
  2. Cliff Freeling

    Steve Guest

    I see no reason that changing the additive package couldn't have a huge
    effect on how the coolant behaves in a closed system. I've seen pictures
    of the insides of engines (GM engines for which the crap was recommended
    and nothing else ever used) filled with the muddy residue. Links to them
    have been posted on this newsgroup (rec.autos.tech, which is where I'm
    reading this).
     
    Steve, Jan 16, 2004
    #22
  3. Cliff Freeling

    markjen Guest

    You've done a good job reviewing the AF picture. It is unfortuate that it
    has gotten so unbelievably complicated confused. I think the car mfgs have
    decided to reap some money out of this confusion by relabeling common AFs
    with their labels and charging double.

    Again, I think most of the hysteria is urban legend and blaming AF on other
    problems. Put any AF in a couple million vehicles, some with serious engine
    and cooling system problems, and you're going to have a few that look pretty
    bad. The same thing occured with synthetic oil and it's occuring with AF.

    Installed properly and changed regulary, use whatever you like and the
    chances of problems is vanishingly small. Just like oil.

    - Mark
     
    markjen, Jan 17, 2004
    #23
  4. Cliff Freeling

    Jimmy Guest

    No question of that. Most of them are rather tight-lipped as to
    what exactly is in their "recommended" coolant.
    Sorry, but with Dexcool, I have to disagree. There are known problems.
    They are admitted to by GM, it's primary promoter.
    Cars with Dexcool have showed metal corrosion 2 years after leaving
    the factory.
     
    Jimmy, Jan 17, 2004
    #24
  5. Cliff Freeling

    MGK Guest

    Put whatever you want in your engine you bought it.
    they are additives that make me use the original Honda Fluids.

    Change you antifreeze every 2 years what is that, about $20 Why spent 15 to
    30 K for a vehicle and quiver about $10 bucks per year for antifreeze. Go
    get an air cooled motorcycle instead.
     
    MGK, Jan 17, 2004
    #25
  6. Cliff Freeling

    markjen Guest

    I hate to continue the argument, but this doesn't mean crap. But any AF in
    three million cars a year and some are going to show corrosion in two years.
    Be reasonable.

    The question is whether there is a higher incidence of corrosion issues with
    Dexcool. Everything else is STRICTLY ANECDOTAL.

    - Mark
     
    markjen, Jan 17, 2004
    #26
  7. Cliff Freeling

    Bob Burns Guest

    There is also propylene glycol based anti freeze. PG is non-toxic.
     
    Bob Burns, Jan 20, 2004
    #27
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.