Sticky gas pedal since 2002 Accord was new

Bought 2002 Accord coupe new. It has 40K miles.
Just a few months after purchase the accelerator seemed to stick when
starting up. Dealer "cleaned" something and the problem went away,
only to return about 6 months later. I’ve had whatever it is in there
"cleaned" a few more times since- the prob disappears- then returns.
About a year ago the service manager told me if it happened again he’d
replace the "throttle body" something for free.

But now they say they won’t do it- it will cost $150 to replace a
"throttle body" thingie.

I’ve read that this pedal stickiness is a fairly common problem. If I
can clean this throttle body myself as opposed to spending $150 I’d
rather do that. How do I know this throttle body thing even needs to
be replaced? The gas pedal was fine for several months each time it
was cleaned.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

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There's a couple things you can try, like using a different brand of gas
or using fuel injector a bit more often. Vapors are gumming up the
throttle body and gluing it shut when the car sits overnight. You can do
a 'quick & dirty' cleanup in about ten minutes or you can pull the whole
body off and render it hospital clean. I'd learn to do the former if I
was you. Look at www.tegger.com or use google to find procedures.

'Curly'

 

A sticky gas pedal is usually due to sludge and oil getting pumped into the
throttle body from the crankcase breather tube. The usual reason for the
oil is poor maintenance, specifically insufficient oil changes. This is
where you need to clean the gum out of the throttle body, after which the
gas pedal will work normally for a while.

Insufficient oil changes will plug up the PCV system, increasing the chance
of oil getting pumped into the throttle body.

You need somebody to be honest with you and tell you if you are in fact not
changing your oil often enough for your driving conditions.

There are occasional instances where the throttle body itself is defective,
in which case the issue would be covered by a TSB from Honda. I can't find
one for yours, but your dealer would know, and can print it out for you if
one exists.

 

There's plainly another reason, because it happens like this on my
father's 98 Odyssey (4 cylinder) and it happened like this on my 2000
Accord, both of which get very regular maintenance.

There's something else going on with that particular engine.

 

Then there ought to be a TSB on the problem. The OP needs to ask his
dealer.

 

from what i can gather, the dealer solution is to spray throttle body
cleaner in there and that's all. i agree with elmo that there is
something going on. i agree that it's got to be something from the oil
vapor like you say, but it shouldn't be happening nonetheless.

this kinda-sorta brings me to something i've been meaning to post for a
while. for the past year, i've been running mobil 1 as a science
project. i've also done a lot of reading around the subject of motor
oils [and believe me, oil companies are slipperier than their product
when it comes to keeping consumers in the dark]. here's part of what i
conclude, and it may be relevant in this case:

m1 /definitely/ has a lower oil burn-off rate than castrol gtx. [this
may be relevant for your integra tegger.] what i find is that within
the first 1000-odd miles of high speed driving, my civic will burn about
half a quart of m1, but after that, it'll burn maybe another quart over
the whole next 9000 miles that i run it. including initial fill, that's
a total of 5 quarts over 10k. not too shabby for a clunker. with gtx,
a fine oil btw, it'll burn a quart in about 1500 miles, and keep on
doing so, so it's a constant monitoring and refill process. over 6k, it
uses nearly 7 quarts including initial fill.

some of this burn-off is due to volatile fractions in the base oil
simply evaporating at high temperatures of operation - no surprises
there. the difference is that m1 is much more isomerised than gtx and
therefore has a much narrower spectrum of molecular weights in the base
oil. therefore, there are fewer over-light fractions that can
evaporate. now, if evaporation means this oil vapor from the crank case
being able to circulate to the throttle body via the breather and
condense into goo when the motor is turned off, then it's worth
experimenting with a different oil with a lower evaporation rate to see
if it mitigates the problem. it'll cost an extra $20-odd bucks at oil
change time, but how much does it cost to have the dealer take off the
intake and squirt cleaner every 50k?

just a thought.

 

The *correct* procedure is to spray, scrub and wipe until clean. If any
franchised Honda dealer does a spritz-only, he should be shot. I would
expect a spray-only to be done by AutoZone or Firestone. Or Canadian
Tire, for that matter. Just that was done to me this past summer when I
had Canadian Tire perform a Motorvac service (which includes a throtte
body clean).

ONE:
There is only one reason for sludge in the throttle body: Oil.
There is only one source for oil in the intake pipe: The crankcase
breather.
There is only one way oil can get far enough through the breather to end
up in the intake: It can't drain out of the valve cove baffles fast
enough.
There is only one reason it can't drain: Sludge.
There is only one reason for sludge: Insufficient oil changes.

TWO:
As I said before, I have seen it where there was a defect in the
throttle body or the throttle cable/linkage that caused the gas pedal to
stick, and in those cases Honda eventually issues a TSB on it.

THREE:
There have also been issues with other cars where the valve cover
baffles or PCV system are somehow poorly designed or assembled, leading
to poor drainage and oil in the intake. In those cases as well, the
automaker issues fixes for that. The fix may not be a TSB, but a mention
in the automaker's internal information documents. Honda's is
ServiceNews.

The above two paragrpahs are why I told the OP to have that checked out.
In any case, those issues should be readily discerned during a quick
investigation by a competent tech.

The fact that the OP's problem was fixed after the dealer cleaned the
throttle body is strongly suggestive of oil in the throttle body. The OP
also covers only 9K miles per year. We don't know what kind of driving
he does, or how often the oil gets changed. No one has any information
on the state of the engine's top end, or on the PCV system. Those things
matter a great deal.

 

I wondered about that too, so I've been using Mobil 1 for the last four
oil changes (total mileage under Mobil 1: about 8,500).

I tried 5W-30 first. Then I tried the ultra-fancy 0W-40. The last two
were back to 5W-30. Mobil has a new 5W-50 mix, but I'm reluctant to try
that one. I've heard bad things about oils with huge spreads between the
numbers.

I also tried the Castrol GTX 10W-30 regular and "High-Mileage"
formulations at one point.

The upshot of all this? NO change of any kind in oil consumption no
mattter what oil I used.

My method of checking my oil level is very precise and controlled, so I
can tell with a high degree of accuracy what my oil usage is.
1) Car is always parked in same place at same angle.
2) Car is always checked after sitting overnight, before starting
engine.
3) Level is checked twice, and noted.
4) Car is driven 1,000 miles.

5) Repeat #1 to #3 to check level again.
6) Add necessary amount to top up (1L between centers of marks).

7) Repeat #1 to #3 to check level once more. If oil is now at original
level, then amount added was correct. If level is still a bit low, you
can now more closely estimate amount still to be added.

8) Calculate mileage.

Measurements are always taken after the car has been driven to at least
one full-hot drive cycle, to ensure maximum drainback into pan. By that
I mean you wouldn't add oil, wait a bit, then check. You'd add, drive it
to full-hot, let sit overnight, then check.

All the above is meaningless on a car with low oil consumption, but once
it gets as high as mine, it starts to matter.

My current consumption is:
1,300-1,400 miles/US qt at the height of summer, with extensive high-rev
operation on the highway,
1,600-1,700 in the late fall,
and probably about 1,800-1,900 in the dead of winter this year
(estimated).

Two years ago, it was 2,200 in the dead of winter, and more like 1,600
in the summer. My rings are just plain worn out, and nothing will fix
that except a rebuild.

If one's main bearings were worn, with high oil consumption due to
excessive throwoff from the bearings, then it's possible a thicker oil
would reduce consumption by reducing throwoff. My bearings are fine
though; oil pressure is well within limits.

 

~2k per change on m1? ordinary oil is good for way more than that.
provided there's no fuel mixture/ignition problems messing up
combustion, m1 should double conventional mileage, especially for a
freeway driver. last time i changed mine at 10k, it came out looking
much the same as it did at 2k - same consistency too. should have left
it in there for another 5k. especially as it had finished getting burnt
and the level was constant.

i don't think you're giving it time to stabilize.

did your head gasket dude use any abrasives when prepping for the new one?

 

I'm changing it every 3K now. It was 2.5K with Castrol GTX. I know I
could leave it lots longer, but I'm paranoid here; I want to milk this
motor for all it's worth. And when a rebuild is finally imperative, I
want that crankshaft to be as perfect as possible.

My oil gets jet-black after 3K, as does our Tercel's. And the Tercel has
only 75K on it.

There is no stabilization period. Either a car uses oil or it does not.
Mine does, and no brand or viscosity is having any effect.

Absolutely not. In fact, he was most emphatically against using any sort
of abrasives when we discussed the job afterwards.

My oil consumption is due to high piston speeds and worn rings. Nothing
else.

At 239K miles, consumption was an average of 2,000mi/qt.
At 279K miles, it's an average of about 1,600mi/qt.

It's declined 400mi/qt in 40,000 miles. If abrasives had been the
culprit, It would have gone from 2,000 to 200 in a few thousand miles.

 

I had this problem with my 99 Accord 4 cyl at about 40k miles too. It was
definitely a safety hazard the way the pedal was sticking. I perform all
the maintenance myself and I do it within the recommend intervals listed in
the owners manual. I also had the extended warranty at that time.

Like your case, the dealer solved my problem by cleaning the throttle body.
Then he refused to cover the cost with the extended warranty because no
"parts" were replaced. To my way of thinking that was BS and I told them
so. If something goes wrong and it is not a regular maintenance action
listed in the manual, nor is it a consumable item like tires, wiper blades,
or light bulbs, then it is an engineering defect and should be covered by
the warranty. Anyway, I ended up paying the dealer for the cleaning and
then writing Honda headquarters and letting them know what I thought of
their scuzzy business practices. Honda Corp agreed to reimburse me for the
cost, but I still came away with a bad taste in my mouth because they still
got away with not covering it via the extended warranty. So guess who is
not buying anymore extended warranties.

By the way, the service rep at Honda Hdqrts recommended that I use Chevron
gas with Techroline and also periodically add a bottle of Techroline
additive to the gas tank in order to keep the problem from recurring. I
think he said I should add it at least every oil change. Well, Chevron is
the only gas I have ever bought since the car was new. I do add a bottle of
Techroline ever now and then and it hasn't recurred yet.

Sid

 

wow, that's not good. what plugs do you use? i know you live in colder
climes which can keep the motor running rich, but excessive soot in the
oil is a symptom of incomplete combustion. weak spark from the plugs
can cause that. that's not say the plugs don't fire, but if they're
weak, combustion is not complete - hence it's always recommended to have
new plugs when going for a smog test. cheapo gasoline can give poor
combustion too.

[i'm running ngk iridium plugs, ngk coiled core plug leads and have been
running chevron gas since about march. mine's still brown after 10k.]

that's not true. if a base loses 15% of the lighter fractions, the
[heavier] remainder will not evaporate and losses will be stabilized.
then all you have to do is bring it back up to original level and it'll
remain pretty constant. and that theory is backed by my experience, as
reported above. mine's stable after about 2k, just when you're getting
ready to change yours!

how did he clean the block mating surface? was there any difference
between consumption before and after the head gasket change?

speed has nothing to do with it - it's temperature [pressure] and
distribution in the combustion chamber. high speed generally goes hand
in hand with temperature, but the speed alone is not the cause.

worn rings will do it for sure. what's compression like? have you done
a leakdown test?

not so. it depends on the abrasive. something like scotchbrite is the
worst of the worst - it has needle shaped alumina spicules that embed in
surfaces causing abrasion for ever more. they will indeed cause ongoing
degradation. but something like silicon carbide, with a relatively even
grainy shape, will generally not embed and will sometimes, depending on
circumstances, work its way out and get carried away by the oil. excess
abrasion of any kind is a problem, but the /type/ of abrasion makes a
big difference.

 

Thanks very much Tegger for your reply.
I change the oil at the dealer every 3750 miles religiously even tho
the car is not driven under severe conditions.
I think I’m going to take it to the dealership I bought it from and
see if I can’t get a straight answer.
Elmo, the Honda service person said that the Odyssey and the Pilot
both DO have this problem but not the Accord. (I googled this and
found that indeed it exists for the Accord too) But I’ll be interested
in knowing what you’ve done to get yours corrected.

 

Tegger,
I am sorry to ask but what is a TSB?
Thanks....Nancy

 

Jim,

Interesting idea and plausible- I know nothing about cars as you might
gather but your explanation makes sense.

I’m the OP and wonder if you think that the lesser grade oil put in at
the dealer would still affect the throttle thing after about 5K miles.
Thats about the time it takes for me to notice it, even tho I always
change oil at 3750.

I’m going to call the original dealer and if I get the same run around
I am really going to be upset. Will report on what their verdict is.
Thanks

 

Plugs are OEM Denso, straight from the Toyota dealer. The gas is
whatever name-brand station is close by. The plugs are firing just fine,
as evidenced by very low HCs when the car is smogged, as well as the
obvious condition of the electrodes and insulators.

So then I should notice a definite difference after 2K, and I do not.
Also, the car used to use no oil at all between changes, but that was
200,000 miles ago.

And the Tercel uses no oil either. If there were any evaporation going
on, I think we'd be seeing it in the Tercel.

Piston speed has quite a lot to do with it. It's one reason the old-time
long-stroke engines would wear rings very quickly. This is a well-known
phenomenon.

Well he very explicitly and deliberately didn't use anything that might
drop into the bore, so that's a non-issue here. He reports that when he
did my head gasket, the bores were completely unscored, but were shiny
smooth all over. My heavy oil consumption predated the head gasket
change.

Also, my oil analysis showed very low silica in the oil, so that's not a
factor either. Use of a foam air filter, or an unfiltered leak into the
intake, will wear the rings/bores very quickly, but the evidence is high
silica in the oil.

 

It's short for Technical Service Bulletin. It's a document Honda puts out
for its franchised dealers when a problem has arisen. TSBs list the
symptoms, causes, fixes, amd the VIN numbers of the cars that are suspected
of having the problem.

TSBs may be issued soon after the car is released, or up to years later,
depending on when a particular common problem surfaces.

Honda has to see a repeating pattern to the problems before they will issue
a TSB. They won't issue one if only a handful of cars come in with a
particular problem.

 

As I say, there's only one source of oil in the intake. If you've changed
your oil as religiously as you say, then drainback should be unimpaired
from the valve cover baffles and there ought to be no oil in the intake.

DID the dealer do a VIN check for TSBs? Did they ever bother to remove the
valve cover and PCV valve to see if the baffles/valve were sludged up or
not? This is not rocket science.

By the way, the type of gasoline used, or the use or non-use of additives
like Techron, will have absolutely zero effect on oil in the intake. The
two things are totally unrelated.

 

yes but that could just be an efficient cat. oil burning cars don't
leave smoke trails like they used to - because of catalysts burning the
hydrocarbons.

that's encouraging.

oil consumption /can/ be worn rings - as discussed before, but my car
doesn't burn oil if i plod about town. it /does/ burn it if i gun it
though. that's high temperature.

does the tercel get driven like the integra? valve timing on that thing
is real benign, so i doubt it could reach the same combustion temps,
even at full throttle.

speed => wear. wear => consumption. speed != consumption.

what /did/ he use? i spent hours and hours shaving crud off mine with a
fine blade. no abrasives. i seriously doubt he had the time to do what
i did.

ideally, they should still have shown the original cross-hatching.

ok, that was what i was driving at - that's definitely wear.

indeed.

regarding evaporation though, consider one last thing. just like
"synthetic" oil being a different formulation today than how it was
originally, there's no reason a producer can't "weight" the base oil for
higher consumption today compared to before. there's ZERO content
information on the bottle, so unless you have a lab, you'd never be able
to tell.

 

Definitely. And I did say that. My oil consumption goes down
significantly in the winter, which is definitely due to lower oil
temperatures. At zero F, it's difficult for the oil in the pan to reach
210F even with highway driving.

However, my consumption is still high across the board. And since I'm on
the highway about 80-90% of the time (during off-peak hours), I can't
spend enough time at city speed to be able to see if there's a
difference.

If I ever end up rebuilding my gearbox, I'm contemplating changing the
5th gear set for something higher, to reduce revs at highways speeds.

Yes, but as I said earlier, when my car had 75K on it, it used no oil
between changes regardless of how hard the engine was driven. My driving
then was much like it is now.

He used a blade and time. He tells me there are no shortcuts when
removing the head gasket remnants.

He also says he's seen plenty of engines where someone has used
ScotchBrite or sandpaper to clean the block face, and these invariably
develop oil consumption problems very quickly, much faster than in 40K
miles.

Sorry, that's what I meant. The crosshatching wears enough to make the
surface a bit shiny compared to brand new, is what I was getting at.