Supertech st3593a oil-filter walmart

The endcaps are an important part of the structure of the cartridge and its
structural integrity. The endcap does *not* butt against the "backing of
the case", not fully anyway, otherwise there would be no way to allow a
bypass down the center tube of the filter. In fact it is held away from
the inside end of the case by a leaf spring in most filters.

Quite obviously there could be several reasons for a collapsed endcap
and/or filter media.

The authors of the filter studies are in no way trying to conceal or
pretend any info about themselves - there is no conspiracy or witch-hunt
here. It doesn't take an engineer to study the construction of something
as simple as an oil filter and for the chemical composition of the
materials and their behavior under operating conditions, it generally takes
*more* than an engineer to do a scientific analysis.

The point here is: given the choice of materials for endcaps of an oil
filter and observing worst case operating conditions of aging oil, who in
their right mind would choose a glued cardboard or reinforced fiber
material which is susceptible to attack by acids, water and any other
by-products from combustion which get into the oil, not to mention the
additives in the fresh oil in the first place?

The bottom line is: if you want a material with relatively good shape
retention and chemical inertness under the temperature, chemical and
pressure attack inside an oil filter, metal is kinda obvious as the choice.
If you want a surface against which you want an anti-drainback valve to
have a good seal, fiber material is umm, not good!

You can put the indictment of Fram at the minimopar Web site down to
employee discontent if you like - that's your choice. Personally I give it
somewhat more credence - my choice!

Obviously you haven't heard about the new Supertechs. Did you even look at
the NTPOG site?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

I don't mind paying $2 more every 6 months for a Purolator Pure One
filter. It has sparkly paint, and it makes me feel smug.

 

arent they doing the equivalent of tearing into a house, stripping off
the wallboard/plaster/whateve, and making note of how the place is
framed (12" on center, 16" on center, etc), with what size wood, and how
the thing is nailed together?

just basic observations, but they can tell a lot.

 

frams are a mid to low priced filter... now what would really piss me
off is seeing a K&N or equivalent with crappy construction.

the last time i looked at a $2 supertech, they still had a rounded
o-ring, with a coil spring , metal end cap/anti-drainback valve inside.

 

I have no problem with your religion.

 

The first paragraph I skimmed through was the description of the bypass valve. Since the description was already flawed, I did not
bother to read the rest.

I just looked at the picture of the Supertech filter since you insisted again. There is an obvious difference in the bypass valve in
that picture than the one on I used last month. I can't comment on the actual function of the bypass valve at this time. I need further
analyzing. I find the author trashing the operation of the bypass valve highly suspicious. Walmart won't be dumb enough waste money on a
defective design. Imagine the litigations...I would not comment had the author did a pressure test.

 

Yep, that's what I've used when Honda brand Filtechs were not available and
I can buy them till 9p.m. on a weekday. It's till not clear to me if
we'll be able to buy Honda brand Filtechs in the new form factor, though
the part does appear to exist.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

See the pic and what they say here:
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml near the bottom of the
page.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

The NTPOG contains some silly comments. Silly enough to make me wonder how
qualified these guys really are.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com

 

One silly comment I found:
"It's possible that a hard enough impact at a sharp angle while the filter
was by-passing might cause it to jam open, but I suspect the fluid within
the filter would prevent this."

Talk about a stretch...

That's part of the problem: Nobody is doing flow testing, media
effectiveness testing, particle counting, pressure testing or anything
else. Just visual observation based or erroneous ideas. "Cardboard" indeed.

And the pictures on NPOG are really crappy. Didn't the author have a
graphics program so he could lighten up the pictures a bit so you could
actually see some detail?

There is ONE organization that did *actual testing* on various filters:
Consumer Reports. It's dated, but just see what they say:
http://list.miata.net/miata/1996-01/1504.html

When the authors of all those "Internet wisdom" sites test their filters
according to the various SAE standard tests, then I will consider them
credible.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com

 

There are still manufacturing operations in the US that stamp sheet
metal and do so at competetive prices. That little piece of steel
costs mere cents whether it is made in the US, Far East, or Eastern
Europe.

It's been a while, but I suppose the standard part as specified in the
Fram applications manual. That's certainly what most people would
use.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. My contention is
that the cardboard is less capable of handling extreme stresses.
There have been known cases where the cardboard has disintegrated
plugging up the media, followed by the bypass opening up and spewing
out the disintegrated cardboard.

My favorite is one guy who just wanted to test Fram vs Wix on an old
car ready for the scrapheap. He used both a Wix and a Fram for 16K
miles. The Wix was still intact after an extended period of time,
but the Fram had turned into a mess. He worked for Dana Corp (maker
of Wix), and said he sent the used Fram to their analysis lab "as a
joke". I know that's "abuse", but it certain highlights that Fram is
generally not a good choice for "robustness" of design/materials.

Two, including a PH6811 and a PH3593A. The cardboard had no signs
of "flaking-off" when dry. I've also opened up an AC PF1127 (Champion
Labs design) and an AC PF47.

Some fibers were actually "flapping in the wind".

 

Well - I've moved on to my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX, where the factory
oil filters are either made by Tokyo Roki (not to be confused with
Toyo Roki) in Japan, or Purolator in the US. I got a nice stash of
the former purchased mailorder.

However - I still have my '95 Integra GS-R, which I plan on changing
the oil and filter every 6 months with limited mileage. I exhausted
my supply of Filtech and Toyo Roki filters. I ended up using a
Hastings filter for my last oil change.

 

As already noted, they're not claiming to be "qualified" - just looking at
construction quality from an obvious eye-ball point. Interpret as your
needs dictate.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

It might have been expressed better but I don't see anything seriously
flawed here - can you elaborate please?

OK - trust Walmart and their auto expert buyer.<shrug>... who has
apparently decided, after gaining some repuatation for having a decent
moderately priced filter on the shelf, to switch a cheap import.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

"Obvious eyeball" is not a credible method of evaluation for something that
operates unseen to the eye and operates on a microscopic level. Can your
eyes determine filtration characteristics?

To even suggest NPOG at all as a credible resource here is to contribute to
"Internet wisdom", as to suggest reading that Website is to suggest that
they are qualified to comment.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda FAQ
http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/faq.html

How to find anything on the Internet or in Usenet Groups:
www.google.com
www.groups.google.com

 

Let me elaborate beyond just the bypass valve;

Bypass valve need like 10 psi to open. It does not need 'pressure spike' nor 'very high rpm' to open, nor does it need the filter media to be
clogged to function. Since the filter media is quite dense, and the oil's viscosity is quite high, the flow rate is not that high through a
filter. When the oil flow is raised, the pressure inside the filter rise exponentially. At a certain flow rate, the pressure inside the
filter rise to a point until the bypass valve open. Bypass valve could open at low rpm and bypass most oil at high rpm. Stating that bypass
valve only open at severe operating condition is flawed.

Certain web site has flow rate for their filters. Using info from that site to pick flow rate and bypass valve pressure, and oil flow rate
from a particular engine's oil pump, the rpm at which the bypass valve would open could be determined. It's been a long time since I
calculated, so my figure of the bypass valve beginning to open at 1300 rpm on the Odyssey could be off a bit.

There are vast number of particles suspended in the oil. Certain particle sizes affect wear, whereas very fine particles has little effect.
This critical size escape me at the moment. If the filter media is too dense, it traps fine particles well. This lead to clogged filter early
in its service life. Clogged filter will open the bypass valve all the time. This is not good.

Filter media has limited capacity to trap particles, that's why the media has to be selected carefully. Best filter media is the one that
only trap wear particles and last the service life. Selecting filter media to trap particles above critical size is a science. This requires
flow test. I doubt that most of us could determine a good filter media by merely looking at it with naked eyes.

There is a correlation between surface area of the media and its capacity. The more surface area the media has, the more particles it could
trap. However, there is no correlation as to its effectiveness when the comparison is between different media. All those filter tables are
nearly useless.

My point is that visual observation has little correlation to the performance of a bypass type oil filter.

 

The mfr's specified bypass opening pressure is mentioned for each filter in
his spreadsheet... if you'd bothered to look at it, so I think he knows
that. The pressure here is a differential pressure across a filter medium
- only secondarily related to absolute oil pressure; in fact one normally
hopes that *most* of the pump's oil pressure makes it through the filter
media, otherwise you're going to have wrecked bearings or perpetual
by-pass... in which case the filter would be a waste of time. I don't see
anything particularly bad with his explanation of a bypass valve. IOW
you're nit-picking.

I dunno when or where you mentioned 1300rpm but think you're way off!

I think it's fair, given the application, to expect that, if the only
criterion was oil filter effectiveness, all the filter mfrs would use
almost identical filter media. The fact that there are palpable, visible
differences seems to indicate that the "science" is not the only
consideration being used in the manufacturing specs... maybe cost?

Stating the obvious does not somehow seem to prove the point you want to
make about the "tables".

The point is that all the mfrs are selling a product for the same purpose:
same oil, same particles, same pressures. I see nothing wrong with looking
at the quality of the materials used to achieve that... especially when
there are glaring deficiencies.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

When looking at several products which all have the same purpose and
operating parameters, you have to make certain assumptions about how the
product specs and materials were arrived at. Ideally one would think that
every filter would be identical in choice of materials and construction if
the science were the only criterion. I think one can make certain
judgements about the quality of materials and fitness for use by looking at
an oil filter before and after use.

Your insistence on declaring everything which doesn't fit your prejudices
as "Internet wisdom" is getting boring. Suggesting that people read a Web
site only means that I think it's worth reading... and IMO it *is*. It
does not mean that I endorse every single detail presented.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

On 6 Jun 2004 21:25:40 -0700, (JM) wrote:

||No, didn't cut it apart, but when I performed a close visual
||inspection of the exterior surfaces of both the FRAM and the STech, as
||well as the interior valving area which was visualized through the
||threaded hole, they looked virtually identical.
||
||As to FRAM, I don't care if the ends are cardboard; cardboard doesn't
||dissolve in oil. But they have a crappy anti-drainback valve, and are
||short on a decent amount of high-quality filtering media. Just like
||their crappy air filters.
||
||Supertech is a $2 (two dollar) oil filter at walmart. Does ANYTHING
||need to be said after that?

If it's made by Champ Labs, I'd use them. Much better than any Fram.
Champ Labs makes a lot of the ACDelco SKUs. Not that that's a quality
endorsement by any means
Texas Parts Guy

 

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 00:34:27 -0400, George Macdonald

||On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:51:20 -0700, Sean Dinh <"seanny"@>
||wrote:
||
||>The purposes of the end caps are to hold the filter media in the folded
state, and to seal the inlet from the outlet. Without them,
||>the filter would flatten out. Taking the filter element out of its protective
case and then putting it on the table to exam its
||>structural strength point to major flaw in the observer's method. With the
element on the table, you could flick your finger to
||>bend the cardboard end cap. Try doing that with the backing of the case
against that cardboard end caps and tell me how your finger
||>feel.
||
||The endcaps are an important part of the structure of the cartridge and its
||structural integrity. The endcap does *not* butt against the "backing of
||the case", not fully anyway, otherwise there would be no way to allow a
||bypass down the center tube of the filter. In fact it is held away from
||the inside end of the case by a leaf spring in most filters.

Leaf Spring is being generous. Actually, it most resembles a halloween clicker.
I've hung around sports cars most of my life. The only filters I have ever seen
to fail catastrophically have been Fram oil filters.
A lot of the dirt track guys used to use small-block Chevy's with the old
cartridge filter. The cardboard Frams would often come out squashed like a beer
can. Didn't take long for them to switch to Wix.
Texas Parts Guy