Things I am upset with my Accord 2003 climate control system

Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate control
but without NAVI.

I just listed number of items from my disappointment list related to climate
control /AC system.

1. Fan power control buttons.
These buttons located diagonally one above the other. They have down arrow
(decrease power) on the upper button and up arrow (increase power) on the
down button. I would assume that this should be the other way around.

2. Internal circulation with Auto ON.

I have noticed that in hot day internal circ light stays for quite long (can
be an hour) if I get in the car when it hot from outside sun and Auto is
ON. Then I found a way to get rid of the circ but keeping AUTO. I increase
room temp above normal, at certain point of temperature circ light goes off,
and then I decrease temp back to normal and circ light does not come up. I
see here either a flaw in the logic or defect in the temp sensor. Otherwise
I would expect circ coming up back again when I decrease below threshold
temp. And still, internal circulation longer than 10 minutes seems to be
abnormal.

3. In A/C ON or OFF mode, I assume that I have full control over the
individual controls of the system. But when I increase/decrease temperature
level I notice that fan speed changes too even if I didn't change fan
settings. My assumption that temp and fan should be totally independent in
this scenario.

4. General lack of information in the display and therefore lack of
control.

When AUTO is on, it's ok to have only temperature levels displayed, because
I realize that fan speed, temperature and modes are dynamically changed
depending on outside conditions and temp settings. But as I turn off AUTO, I
assume that these dynamic values are become fixed, but I have no idea what
they are. No fan or mode display at the moment as well as AC ON or OF
indication.

There is an indirect way to find it out though. As I change any of
mentioned settings, it brings these settings to the display and only after
that they stay. I assume these settings should be on display at any time
when AUTO is off. And this indirect way has another drawback. As you bring
value to the display you change it even if you want only to check it.

I would be interested in listening opinions and experience of others,
JS

P.S. I wonder , if there is such a thing as firmware upgrade for car
computer similar to let say cell phone?

 

It always amazes me when people complain about modern A/C systems.
Our first three new cars didn't even have a heater!

Dick

 

If you push the A/C button (2nd from top on right) the NAV dispolay
changes to climate control and all your settings are there. Just as
described in the owner's manual.

 

The Insight had a firmware upgrade to adjust the displayed fuel mileage to
be more in line with reality.

(My HP620 camera had a firmware upgrade to allow proper operation with
256MB SD chip... download to the camera as a USB disk drive, and then
reboot... a camera!!)

 

He clearly said "without NAVI"...

 

I guess... I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. I think
this mimics how other similar controls (volume on a stereo) are
usually set... press left to decrease, right to increase. They don't
take the upper/lower button thing into consideration... they just
engineered the controls as if they were in a straight line.

Agreed... it does stay on longer than my 2000 EX (also with automatic
climate control). But I just let it work automatically and it doesn't
seem to be an issue.

In answer to 3 and 4, I believe that the system retains automatic
control over all functions until you override them with specific
manual controls. So in 3, for example, if you haven't manually set a
fan speed, the system still controls it automatically.

The advantage of this approach is that the system continues to control
functions that you haven't "overridden". Last weekend, we had a lot
of rain in my area, so I needed to use defog. When I manually set the
mode, the system still controlled the temperature and fan speed, with
the result being comfortably controlled temperature and clear windows.

So that's why the system doesn't immediately display all settings when
you turn off auto. Each automatically controlled function reverts to
manual only when you explicitly take control of it by setting it. I'm
pretty sure this is how it works, but I'm no expert, so I may be
wrong.

 

dbrebel said for all posterity...

Funny... I never noticed it either. I always just look at the
arrows on the buttons.


Casey

 

Probably designed by the same engineering bozos who left out the radio
station display. When you're changing stations, it displays the radio
station, but once the it displays the clock, there's no button to display
the radio station again. (well, you can push the bass/treble/bal/fade button
5 times, but that's a pretty dumb workaround).

 

dbrebell,
these are quite plausible statements, but it's hard to imagine how climate
control would work if some (one or more) parameters overridden ? e.g. how
anything would function if fan speed is fixed at nearly 0 ?

by the way, i have the same car, and i am confused with mode "auto" itself.
when I turn the car on i have only temp values displayed, neither "auto"
indicator is displayed nor "ac on/off","mode","fan". based on your idea it's
already auto mode because no overridden values are on. now, when i press
button "auto" indicator "auto" is displayed, so it means I have overridden
what ....."auto" i had by default ????

Dave

 

Well, that's how it works... if you set the fan speed at nearly 0,
it's not going to do a very good job of climate control, but it'll do
what it can based on what you've set. Honda has to design the system
to work in semi-automatic mode regardless of how you manually override
some setting, and they can't save you from yourself if you use the
system in an illogical manner.

Based on how the system operates on automatic, I doubt that many
people would use the fan control to turn the fan speed down, since it
goes WAY down all by itself. It's more likely that they'd turn the
fan speed up, particularly if they're trying to clear very foggy
windows or keep the windshield clear of snow or ice.

Don't know what you did... mine always starts up in auto unless I've
overridden something. Without watching you work the unit, it's
impossible to guess what you've done. The things that you override
are fan speed, mode and a/c on/off, and all display the set value when
you do.

What happens if you make sure that auto is on before you turn the car
off? How is the system set when you start the car again?

 

Dean said for all posterity...

What bozos are you talking about?

The OP that you replied to said:

"Hello, this posting is applicable to 2003 EX model with climate
control but without NAVI."

My 2003 EX without NAVI displays the clock and radio station all
the time. The volume control will temporarily override the
station number, but only for a few seconds.

So, I'm thinking you must have the NAVI.



Casey

"What happens if you get scared half to death twice?"
-Steven Wright

 

dbrebell, thank you for your input,
i admit, example with "fan speed nearly 0" was not the best. more likely
situation is setting the temp below outside with AC off. i understand that
system will try to cool down as much as possible, but displayed temperature
values would make no use because they reflect something which cannot be
achieved in current conditions. making those values even lower does not
change anything. so, in my opinion, this nonlinear behavior does create a
confusion. well....., this was questionable matter, but below i describe
straight forward example of the confusion....

1. "auto" light on button is ON and "auto" indicator is ON.
2. pressing IntCirc button makes "auto light and indicator to go off, and
light on IntCirc button to come up.
3.pressing IntCirc button again makes light to go off but AUTO indication is
not restored.

now comes the question: is system in full AUTO mode after step 3 or not ?
if yes, then where is the indication, if no then what mode is it in and why
?

 

I should have been more specific: the Civic radio does not display radio
station after 5 seconds.

 

It's not in full AUTO mode at that point. It's going to be forced to
control the temperature as best it can without recirculating cabin
air. It IS working the same way it was in your step #1, when AUTO was
illuminated, but the AUTO light did not come on after your step #3
because at that point the system no longer has control over the
recirculation -- you have MANUALLY turned recirculate OFF. To get
back to full AUTO, you would have to press the AUTO button. The way
the indicators are lit and the status of the AC system as you describe
it makes perfect sense to me. I don't think it's confusing or
illogical.

Ron

 

Milleron answered the AUTO question very well... thanks!

As for the statement about the temperature with the A/C off, it's
pretty much like the earlier fan question. There are so many
combinations of settings that you could use that it would be kinda
ridiculous to have all kinds of special behavior when you override
something. The question I have to ask is... what would you consider a
logical way for the system to react when you turn the A/C off? Should
it prevent you from setting the temp lower than outside temp? And
what about if you already have the temp set lower when you turn the
A/C off? Is the display supposed to jump to outside temp?

No, neither of those scenarios make sense, and would really be
confusing, because suddenly the temp controls would be nonlinear. The
temperature settings are just that, settings, and not a temperature
gauge. As with many things in a car, Honda has to rely on a measure
of common sense in people, and that they'd understand that, regardless
of the temp setting, you're not going to lower than outside temp if
you turn the A/C off. It's really no different than your thermostat
at home... you can set the temperature down to 60 degrees, but if you
don't have the A/C turned on, you'll never get there.

It may not make perfect sense to you, but it does to me. And I can't
imagine how they could change the control behavior to make more sense.

 

agreed, your explanation totally make sense to me, thank you

 

My auto climate works great and the full auto and semi-auto works as
described here (which I like). I like the fact that I choose the mode
I like and still get the auto controlling the temp and fan speeds.

Mine does NOT revert to Auto when I shut off the car. It comes back on
exactly like it was when I shut it off. If I've set on of the
controls, it comes back on the same way. I like this and it would
annoy me if I had to reset it to my liking everytime I started up the
car.

Pushing Auto of course resets everything to automatic settings.

 

drrebell, i agree with Milleron, but if you ask me what could be possibly
done if automatic system is off to avoid any confusion, the answer is
simple, and you don't have to strain your imagination. system should act
like conventional A/C :

DISPLAY LEVEL OF HEATING which is absolutely certain rather than DISPLAYING
TEMPERATURE which is in some conditions could be in fact meaningless or
abstract.

 

Folks,

this discussion came to interesting question.....is it actually possible to
make discussed system to act like "conventional A/C" ? I bet NOT. And
otherwise was the wrong assumption at the first place.

Think about it...temperature is the only parameter you cannot "override".
This could mean that temperature sensor may be always ON !!! In other words
you cannot have control over "level of heating" regardless. Well, except
probably situations when you have "HI" or "LO" settings.

JS

 

That solution didn't occur to me. I guess such a way of thinking
pretty much requires that a person considers the way it's done to be
confusing. And the bottom line is, I don't. I feel that the lack of
consistency and added complexity in control operation has more
potential to confuse than the abstraction employed.

And it's not as if Honda invented this approach... automatic climate
control systems have used the "set the desired temperature" control
paradigm for years in systems from just about every auto manufacturer.
Apparently there haven't been enough complaints about how confusing
this paradigm is to prompt any of the manufacturers to change it.

So let's just say that I respect your viewpoint, but personally prefer
things the way they are.