Timing belts

Hi,
Another example of poor design, some 4 bangers with spark plugs facing
fire wall. Try to replace plugs, it's MAJOR hassle. Some you have to
remove access hole cover from front wheel well.

 

My aforementioned 1984 Dodge 600 is a good example of how that can backfire.
With regular maintenance it was a reliability nightmare. Besides the
carburetor overhaul at one week of age and a replacement PS rack just before
the warranty ran out, it needed an A/C clutch (bearing seized), then an A/C
compressor, two drive axles, an A/C hose, and fuel pump... all in the six
years we had it. I did all the non-warranty labor, including hunting down a
lighting short that involved removing the entire interior to trace it. (The
short was in the front passenger door, where the wire had banged against a
sharp edge until it shorted and welded in place.) I didn't keep track of the
labor hours, but all that would have been somewhere between $3000 and $5000
in labor after the warranty period. The parts (I went with the cheapest I
could find) totalled more than $1000, including the $700 compressor. Dodge
wanted $1350 for the compressor, so I guess I got off okay.

I have owned only three new cars in my 40 years of driving; a 1970 Mercury
Capri, the infamous 1984 Dodge, and a 2002 Toyota Prius. The first two were
serious lemons. I have had much better results - not luck, once I got some
experience at evaluating used cars - with cars that have around 100K miles.
At 50K miles it is hard to tell how a car has been treated; at 100K it is
hard to hide. I would never buy your putative car with the infrequent oil
changes, and not only because it had too few miles (although it illustrates
my point about hard to tell vs hard to hide). One of the screening checks I
do is to remove the oil filler cap and look under it for amount of varnish
and deposits; the poorly maintained car would fail right there. Also *never*
buy any car with any trace of rust in the cooling system. I violated that
once with the Nissan 300ZX because I lusted after the car, and I repented
with many weekends under the hood. Always ask around in usenet forums about
the model and the year of the car you are thinking about - you will learn a
lot about common problems without learning it the hard way. Forget Carfax -
it listed my daughter's Accord as having been a fleet car (the previous
owner showed me the paperwork from when he bought it new and the title
record agreed) and didn't mention - as the seller revealed - that it had
been stolen and recovered. Carfax also gave a clean bill to my son's Acura -
the one with wrecking yard markings on several front body parts and no
labels under the hood.

Mike

 

Some numbers from www.kbb.com a well known automotive
pricing service that consumers and car dealers alike use:
Today a 2004 Accord sedan LX automatic transmission with 55k
miles on it and having complete and verifiable service
records (so "excellent" condition) trades in for $8225 in
zip code 02138. People are paying about $20k for a new 2008
Accord sedan LX. Figure at least $500 for sales tax. So the
net cost of the new 2008 Accord to you would be about $12k.

Do you think you would spend $12k on maintaining the 2004
Accord over the next four or so years? Do you know how much
you have spent on your two Accords since buying them?

There is nothing wrong with wanting a new car, Anon. But it
cannot be justified financially. This is not just me talking
but the Car Talk guys; any reputable financial adviser; any
accountant; etc.

 

Ah, yes! I thought it was a major gaffe when the Chevy Vega had that
problem. Since then it has turned up in a bunch of other models, I
understand, including the Chevy Astro V6. So, what car company is in the
most financial trouble?

At work I have also heard about the Ford F-series spark plugs. Apparently
the late models use platinuk or iridium plugs with a long service interval.
reat, except the threads are titanium coated for no obvious reason. Titanium
is very reactive, and most owners who leave the plugs in until replacement
is called for find they have welded themselves in - lots of horror stories
of having to remove the head to get the plugs out. Apparently Ford has
released a TSB on removing the plugs: warm up the engine, loosen the plugs
about 3/4 turn, apply penetrant and let the engine cool... then, good luck.

Mike

 

Sure, but this choice cannot be justified financially unless
some dollar value is attached to the mental satisfaction of
owning a new car. Plus a lot of them think they are going to
see maintenance costs go way up in the coming years. With
cars built about 1990 and later, this just does not happen,
on average.

A fun example: My parents are driving a 91 Ford Taurus with
124k miles. He is an engineer and numbers wonk. He tracks
his car costs and MPG carefully. He was able to justify
having $1000 of suspension work recently, because his
overall cost of ownership per year continues to decline, and
because the MPG is good enough that he thinks the engine is
fine. He does not do his own care maintenance, either.

They bought a Toyota Corolla a couple of years ago (to
replace an even older Taurus), but mostly for fun and better
MPG.

 

Being retired I need at least two older Hondas to keep my
mind engaged.

 

I had an 1987 Olds V6 I obtained from my mother when she died. I drove it
for 2 years and gave it to my daughter. She finally totaled it this year
with 187000 miles on it. The only maintenance ever done was tires,
batteries, oil changes every 8000 miles. It had a timing GEAR, not a belt.

 

You might spend 12k on maintenance if you did everything in the manual at
the dealer and a timing belt plus all those oil changes plus new tires,
shocks, brake job and battery. AND I would have the pleasure of driving a
new technology car every few years.

 

I was going to raise this point, but the oil change interval
for newer Hondas is now one year and 10k miles for many
newer Hondas; potentially even less often for Hondas with
the Maintenance Minder system. So I think he might get away
with changing the oil twice without too much wear and tear
on the engine. I am not so sure one could tell, after four
years and only two oil changes, that it had not had the oil
changed often enough. I am not so sure car dealers care that
much on a trade in, since they tend to still have so much
maneuvering room on the actual sale.

I heard there have been problems with Carfax. I have seen
www.autocheck.com get better reviews.

 

I hear you, I once loved maintaining my own car. I am also retired and have
a bad back that prevents me from doing anything to the car except drive it.

 

Carfax and autocheck cannot tell you ever changed the oil. As long as you
change it a week before you trade only the next owner will know.

 

Break it down and prove it.

This is the only justification there is for buying new every
few years: Mental satisfaction based in materialism.

 

This from the person who could not locate the Maintenance
Schedule in his owner's manual.

You should buy the new car.

 

Hi,
Being retired I have few other things I am engaged in. Looking after
family vehicles(yesterday I put on winter tires, checked tires making
sure it has correct pressure; I have a shop compressor which makes
certain tasks easy. I have a OBDII, DTC reader on my notebook for CEL
trouble-shooting, I am a life time HAM radio guy, I am life time low
brass guy playing in local concert band, also I work part time as
consulting engineer whenever they need me or when I feel like. I am in
control how much I want to be engaged, LOL!

 

Hi,
New technology is only good after it is provewn in real world..
That is how U.S.got into credit crisis? I own every thing I have. I
don't own any money to any one.

 

I think something must have been left out. If one can loosen the plugs
3/4 turn, what's the problem? Just take 'em all the way out. Maybe I'm
missing something.



Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher

 

Actually, it's when the MM tells you or one year, whichever comes first,
at least for my 08 CR-V. It just hit the year mark (with about 4500 mi
and the MM said oil life was still 60%) so it got its annual oil change
(and filter which the book says only needs to be changed every other oil
change).

 

Absolutely correct!

My flock of ancient Honda Civics have phenominal reliability.

They also have the advantage of a simplified timing belt design... Not
necessary to change out the water pump as it is driven by a conventional
water pump/alternator belt.

Those that buy a new car only come out ahead IF they drive the thing
'til the wheels are square. With Hondas, that's usually 300K or more..

JT

 

Heh... A few years ago, someone gave me a '92 Taurus that had
overheated but was otherwise in mint conditon. When I got done with it,
I had over $2K invested and was glad to get $1,500 just to see it out of
my sight forever.

No more American junk!

JT

 

I've got that and now I'm building a couple of new storage sheds for
added benefit...

<G>

JT