Torquing of head bolts ?

I finally got around to getting the head back on my 89 Accord. I didn't have
it skimmed or valves rebuilt. I know my rings aren't that great. I bolted it
down with new gasket and went through the tightening sequence. I did it
about five times, each time adding another 10 or so, "NM" of torque.

I ran a tap through all of the head bolt holes. After that I stuck a magnet
down into each hole to remove any residue.
I gave each of the head bolts the Presidential treatment ... oiled the hell
out of them and used a brass brush on their threads. Still, while tightening
them down, I feel a point of the bolt wanting to turn but can't .... then
loosen it a bit and start the tightening again and it turns easily, and more
than it went before, for the same torque reading. What is the correct
procedure for torqueing head bolts ? Do you tighten and then loosen or just
tighten only ?

I guess that after driving the car, I should recheck the torque at some
point. When should that be ?

Thanks,
Forrest

 

if you go to tegger.com and dig through some of the tsb's, you'll find
honda revised their torque procedure. basically, torque with the
bending beam torque wrench, two stage, as before, then go back and
check-torque the center two bolts. after that, you're done. the
quality honda gasket means no re-torque required.

if i were you, i'd go back and do a two stage tightening. it does the
best job of getting past the "sticktion" problems you're having. you
are using the bending beam aren't you?

 

I was afraid you would say that ... do it over, that is. Every time that I
woke up last night, I came to the same conclusion. Yes, I did use a bending
beam type of wrench. I think that a good part of the problem is the type of
lube that I used on the bolt threads. After cleaning them up, I lubed them
with "Dura lube". It was the spray stuff and rather thin. I guess I was
supposed to use engine oil. I was afraid of getting a hydraulic lock or
whatever in the bolt holes.
Not so sure that I got the block holes as cleaned out as well as I should
have. I ran the tap down each one and each had metal debris that came out on
the little pencil magnet that I put in the holes. A few of the bolts had a
small bit of resistance when threading by hand. I was afraid of overdoing
it. Is it OK to run the tap more than once?

 

I just went to tegger.com but couldn't find the TSB that you were talking
about.

 

Why on earth you would tap the head bolt holes is beyond me. Do you have
any idea whether the tolerance grade/position on your tap is the same as
what Honda's thread cutter used? Those oil-soaked chips will never come out
now. You /may/ be able to blow them out with compressed air.

All that should have been on the bolt threads and under the bolt head is
engine oil. /Anything/ else will alter the bolt's final torque.

I shouldn't have to point out that installing head bolts is one of the most
precise jobs you can perform on any car. Failure to follow the manual
precisely will result in early failure of your new gasket.

The shop manual specifies that you should tighten the head bolts in two
stages (22 ft/lbs, then 49 ft/lbs), following this sequence:
8-6-2-4-10 >>
9-3-1-5-7 >> timing belt end

Get thee hence to eBay and buy a proper Helm shop manual.

 

I'm not finding any TSB like that, not even at Ebscohost.

I do find an HSN article (Nov '05) involving North-American-built V6s only.
But this one does not mention re-checking the middle two bolts.

 

don't worry about that - the threads don't seal that hard.

the trick is to use grease on the tap - it retains all the swarf.

sure, as long as the threads aren't crossed. don't over-do it though.

 

indeed. i have a tsb though that says go back to the center two bolts
at the end. no time tight now, but i'll dig it up and email it to you.

 

That would be nice, thanks. Even if you know the number, offhand.

 

I removed all of the bolts and reinstalled them with engine oil on the
threads. Worked much better this time. Still though, if I stopped at all
during the tightening, the torque wrench reading would be way high and it
didn't want to go more without exceeding the desired mark. It was hard to
pull and be able to read the scale and yet not stop until the right reading
was attained. My wrench was a bit short and wimpy and maxed out at 70 NM ...
68 being the desired torque. It would have been much easier using my big
click type, torque wrench. What's wrong with using them? Is the calibration
usually too far off or do they just vary too much between bolts?

I rechecked the center two but as I said, after stopping, nothing was going
to read under-torqued. Does that mean that I should loosen them a both a bit
and redo them?

I have the Haynes manual, which I think Jim said wasn't worth a damn,
(couldn't agree more) and I have a Honda manual entitled, "Accord service
manual 1989" that's silver in color. It isn't worth a damn either. It's not
much more than a picture book with some specs. It doesn't really tell you
how to do anything.

 

If you're using a torque wrench that maxes out at your desired torque,
you're using the wrong wrench. Torque wrenches are most accurate in the
middle third or so of their ranges.

Absolutely nothing. Except that people tend to turn them too fast, which
throws off the torque. If you turn it /slowly/ and continuously until
you hear the click, you're OK.

The clicker type must also have been stored with its spring /unloaded/,
and should be "worked" (clicked) a few times before actually using it.

People tend to store their clicker wrenches left at the last torque
setting they used, which wrecks the spring. If yours has been stored
that way, it's junk. Beam-types are not subject to this problem, since
they reset to zero deflection each time you let go.

Yes. But after all this back-and-forth, I fear you may have compromised
your new gasket's sealing properties. Might be best to just leave it for
now, and just do everything right the next time the gasket fails again.

You need the real thing, from Helm. Worth every penny you pay for it.

 

Well, let's hope that the third time is the charm. My clicker torque wrench
has always been left on the setting that I used last. I went down and bought
a new "micrometer" clicker torque wrench. It was $50 instead of the $20 for
the regular one. I used it a half dozen times on some lug nuts and then set
it up for the head bolts. I loosened them sequentially to about 15 lbs or so
and then sequentially tightened them to the recommended 22 lbs. I then went
through them all in order at 49 lbs, being careful to pull slowly and evenly
and stopping at the click. They all tightened smoothly. I then loosened #1
and #2 a tad and retorqued them. Done deal!

I doubt if the gasket suffered, since I never removed it after the initial
installation and never over-torqued any of the bolts. All loosening and
tightening was always done incrementally and in sequence. What say you?

Now the fun starts, trying to remember what goes where. I ended up with two
new timing belts. One is a "Goodyear Gatorback" and the other is Dayco
brand. Which would you use? And don't tell me to go down and order a
genuine Honda belt. :')

 

Nothing to lose now. Just watch the coolant level and temp gauge.

OK, I won't.

Any aftermarket is just fine, but replace at about half the OEM interval.
And make 100% certain it's the same length, width and number of teeth as
OEM.

 

you're supposed to use bending beam because you can see the bolt creep
around if you hold it at torque. with clicker, once it clicks, you
think it's there when it's not.

gasket will be fine provided the engine hasn't started and gotten warm.

i say it's fine.

neither. go buy a genuine honda belt. the cost difference is minimal.
when you have it, compare the three of them and note the quality
differences.

 

here's an online version.

http://www.rebuiltautoengines.com/honda-civic-articles.html

i'm emailing you the pdf i have. it says "civic" but the advice is
sound and i recommend applying it to accord as well.

 

Got it, thanks.

It turns out I did have that one. Thinking of Accord, I didn't check my
Civic archive. In fact, the one I have is /newer/ than the one you sent,
being November rather than September issue. I've added it to the TSBs for
Civic. Ebscohost also has that one.

If this TSB was applicable to Accords, don't you think Honda would have
included Accords in the vehicle list (which does not include VTEC Civics)?

 

would or should? i think should. it's the middle of a head that lifts
on overheating, so it makes sense to go back and ensure the middle is
absolutely secure.