Toyota's troubles Honda's fortune?

Honda's environmental control system design logic -- by default,
toggling the A/C 'ON' every time air is directed onto the windscreen,
then leaving the A/C 'ON' even after blower output is set to dash or
floor -- undoubtedly contributes to a much higher than anticipated A/C
clutch duty cycle and that particular failure.

 

There is a TSB out on that problem. Cost to fix depends on how far the
fragments went into the system.

My boss has an '03 CR-V. Same problem, but he has 280,000 miles on the car,
so he's not going to bother to fix the A/C.

He's probably going to dump the CR-V in the spring, but probably not for
another CR-V since he doesn't like the styling of the new ones. This is his
second CR-V, plus his wife has a '97.

 

But the AC won't cycle below a certain outside temperature.

Above that temperature, it's prudent to have the defroster actually
provide dry, defrosting air to the windshield.

But simply aiming the air at the windshield doesn't trigger the AC.
Using the defrost button does, but not manually aiming the air at the
windshield.

 

Nope. Not on the 2005 CRV SE at least.

There is no "DEFROST" option, other than the electrical heating elements
for mirrors and rear window.

The blower options are location-specific: cabin, mixed cabin/floor,
floor, and windscreen.

Selecting the windscreen option automatically triggers the A/C circuit
(which down to local temp minima in the teens F continues to operate).

De-selecting the windscreen option leaves the A/C on, which is a problem
when the driver is unaware that it has been left on (which many are).

Hence the greater A/C clutch duty cycle and adverse impact on MPG.

 

I suspect that might contribute to it, but the failure happened on a day
when it was 110 degrees F; to my wife; on her way to my daughter's wedding
rehearsal. The glow was definitely off Honda after this incident.

 

Understandably!

 

Hm, I never heard of this. I wonder if this is also the case on my '94
Accord. It would be good to know.

 

I don't know about the Venza, but I do know that the current Corolla has
electric power steering.

 

This is just a sample. They are from a Canadian source, but Canadian market
cars are usually exactly the same mechanically as U.S. market cars. Lots of
detail, but I have provided links below. In particular, the "close-coupled"
catalytic converter used with the 2.5L engine (used in the Altima and
Sentra) was known for self-destructing, resulting in catastrophic engine
trouble.

2002-2006 Altima:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/10/22/used-vehicle-review-nissan-altima-2002-2006-2.htm

2000-2003 Maxima:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2008/10/16/used-vehicle-review-nissan-maxima-2000-2003.htm

2001-2006 Sentra:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/06/11/used-vehicle-review-nissan-sentra-2001-2006.htm/3

 

Hmm. Well, I do not know. All I know is that we had a short test-
drive, and my wife hated the steering. The salesman said that the
Toyota Venza had the latest "fly-by-wire" as they had in the latest
airplanes. What that meant, I did not know, but I associated it with
my wife's hating the steering. Of course salesmen say a lot of
things, and I should have looked under the hood, and I could have
determined what it was, but you know how it is....if your wife says
that she hates it, then that's it! So we left.

 

The amount of total bullshit that permeates Usenet is amazing. Is Usenet
the CB radio of the 21st Century? So it would seem.

Fact 1: ALL cars to this very minute have ordinary (and quite mechanical)
steering just like any vehicle since the very day steering was introduced.

Fact 2: This "fly by wire" thing refers to the THROTTLE, not the STEERING.

The newest power steering systems use electric motors rather than
hydraulics to effect the power-assist that makes it easier to turn the
steering wheel. This is the source of the confusion that results in the
mis-identification of electric assist as being "fly-by-wire".

 

this "recall" stinks of politics/protectionism.

1. why would [politically naive] toyota have a recall after buying cts
sensors [with what, three failures?] when domestics using the same
supplier haven't the slightest whiff of recall?

2. google for reports of bmw stuck throttle problems and you'll find
plenty, but i don't see the national media whipping themselves up into a
xenophobic frenzy over it.

 

well said.

 

it really offers no advantages on emissions [other than maybe total CO2,
but that's also an economy thing]. but it does offer two significant
advantages for control:

1. cruise control is now a piece of cake.

2. automatic shifting is now a piece of cake.

for #2, old style shifting under full power meant having a transmission
with converters/clutches that could take the load/wear. not a trivial
mechanical solution, and thus, not cheap either. this was partially
addressed in the 90's with retarding ignition timing to reduce engine
output at the critical moment, which helps, but it's not a real
solution. with electronic throttle, you can have a quick and precise
power-down exactly in sync with the shift event, thus reducing
mechanical load, gas consumption, and offering the potential to make the
shift smoother. it's an excellent thing.

indeed.

the dead stinking herring for me though, is why are none of the other
[domestic] manufacturers cts supplies subject to the same kind of
hysteria? you can count the number of toyota instances of "failure" on
one hand. but frod?

http://www.pr.com/press-release/46864
http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=73480
http://www.safetyforum.com/fordsua/
etc.

why is the "media" not trying to whip the proles into a frenzy of
anti-frod fear and loathing?

and another thing: i've had a stuck [mechanical] throttle [cable] once.
all you do is knock the transmission into neutral and stop the car.
instances of death, allegedly due to stuck throttles are
incomprehensible to me - the car would need to have a stuck throttle,
stuck ignition switch, brake failure and stuck transmission - those do
not all happen at once. driver error otoh, well, some people just can't
accept responsibility for their own incompetence, otherwise known as
"natural selection".

 

It's more than that, I've since learned: it's primarily for VSA and
Traction Control, not emissions or cruise.

VSA and TRAC are dependent on the ECM/PCM having complete control over
the throttle.

And some more information I learned...

That "Smart Start" button is part of the problem. The 3-second delay
(there for liability reasons) must be terribly confusing in a panic
situation.

Those two-gate automatic shifters are another source of the problem. The
cop that died (in a loaner car) had tried to push his shifter into
Neutral, but had pulled the lever over into the "Sport" side of the
gate, which toggled between up and down in Drive only. In his panic, he
didn't realize that.

Also, apparently some people are not riding the brake /hard enough/.
They are doing it in stages, letting off between, which overheats the
brakes. If they would simply stomp the pedal as hard as possible, and
/keep the pedal down/, the brakes will overpower the engine and sto the
car.

 

true, electronic throttle makes those relatively easy [and cheap] too.

i hadn't considered, that, but yes, you're right, that would be a major
problem. there should be a "KILL" button on all-electronic cars, just
like on race cars.

natural selection. familiarize yourself with the vehicle controls
before driving.

indeed.

 

I appreciate your demonstration of being in the know, and true most
all manufactures use drive by wire technology, though, not all
vehicles use it, and not all vehicles use the same kind of technology;
same concept, but different technologies.

Yes, floor mats are an issue, however, after your post, Toyota
announced http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-consumer-safety-advisory-102572.aspx
what the actual problem is.

 

Here's what bugs me about the floor mat issue. My 96 Civic had a
recall due to sliding floor mats.Thirteen years later Toyota didn't
remember that? My Honda floor mats for my Fit have neat little clips
on the fronts that keep them from moving forward. Those little
"sticky-outty" things on the bottom of a mat only last for so long.

--

- dillon I am not invalid

I love my country, It's my government I fear.

Hey, turnabout's fair play.

 

It looks like Ford, & Hyundai are the main beneficiaries. I have seen a
ton of Ford Fusion cars around.

 

Looks like Ford and Chevrolet are picking up the 'slack' from Toyota.