transmission fluid

ok i have a 92 acura integra i just replaced teh clutch myself and it
the tranny leaked fluid. does anybody know how fill it up again and do
i use gear oil?. the guy at autozone told it used motor oil, can
someone let me know if i dhould use motor or gear oil. thankx for your
help in advanced,,,,hector

 

Where did it leak fluid? If it was leaking from behind the release bearing,
you have a leaking oil seal, and the only cure is a rebuild.

 

teg, mebbe during the clutch install process, he had some fluid leaked
out...

yeap, use motor oil as the manufacturer stated

 

NO! Use Honda MTL. The 10W-30 sold now is nowhere what it was in the early
'90s. Do not trust aftermarket solutions, no matter how good thay are
supposed to be.

Honda no longer recommends the use of 10W-30.

 

holy crap! did all other previous honda owners of earlier models were
notified of this??? is there a national bulletin sent to the owners of
manual-clutched hondas that state to use honda-only-approved manual
transmission lube???

I'm just curious about it, teg... thanks for providing any links to
this

 

well /you/ clearly missed the memo. truth is, back in the early 90's
motor oil additives were ok for transmissions. that's why the owner
manuals printed at that time said it was ok to use them. but today, due
to emissions regs, motor oil formulations have changed and motor oils
are /not/ considered appropriate for transmission use. real simple -
the transmissions haven't changed but the oils have.

 

Where was this memo? Because here in r.a.m.h is the first I've heard of the
concept. You'd think if it was that horrid a problem, there would be a TSB or
something sent out to all Honda owners, like they do with recall notices. If I
didn't read TeGGeR's posts, I'd never know any better. I can't imagine my
3gee's tranny is going to fall out because I just topped it up with 10W30...

 

so ignorance is ok? i don't get it.

 

Not to be too impertinent, but I think the good fellows are
playing around with you and others a bit. Here's all the
official documentation I have sen on this subject.

1.
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/parts/ , which says:
"Honda MTF Plus Manual Transmission Fluid has been
specifically formulated for use in all Honda manual
transmissions. MTF Plus is designed to provide smoother
shifting operation at all temperatures over the life of the
fluid."


2.
Tegger posted awhile back an example from the '02 RS-X
manual (pg 13-4): "Always use Honda Manual Transmission
Fluid (MTF). Using motor oil can cause stiffer shifting
because it does not contain the correct additives."

3.
From the 2005 Civic owner's manual (and I'm betting all of
the more recent owner's manuals):
"If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an SAE 10W-30 or
10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal
that says 'FOR GASOLINE ENGINES' as a temporary replacement.
However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives,
and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as
soon as it is convenient." [A number of folks here over the
last several years have offered more remarks on how oil
chemistry technology has changed to the detriment of its
performance as a manual tranny lubricant.]

4.
Many reports on the net attest to the better shifting with
the Honda MTF. I switched to the Honda MTF just last week
and think the shifting is smoother, though not profoundly.

5.
The Honda MTF container says on it that one may increase the
time between MTF changes by using it.

6.
Lastly, to me the clincher: The 2005 Honda Civic owner's
manual gives a maintenance interval for the MTF of 6
years/120k miles (normal driving conditions). Contrast this
with my 91 Civic owner's manual maintenance interval for the
MTF: 2 years/60k miles (normal driving conditions). At least
going by the years limiter, the cost of using the Honda OEM
MTF ($12/6 years) is about the same as that using ordinary
engine oil ($4/2 years). To me the chatter on the net added
to what Honda says in its manuals and some sites means one
is erring on the safe side by going with the Honda OEM MTF.

 

No, I'm just wondering why if it's such a critical thing, there isn't a lot more
widespread information about it.

Anyone who's paid any attention to news sources the past week knows not to buy
California spinach. So far there've been no widespread warnings about putting
modern motor oils in your older Honda transmissions, so I can only conclude it's
really not that big an issue.

FWIW, I'm on my third MT '87 Accord now, with a combined mileage across the
three of almost 1.2 million kilometers, all running 10W30 in the transmissions,
with no problems yet.

 

Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual AND owner's manuals for
my '87 Accord all specify standard motor oil - I don't even know if Honda had
their own MTF in '87. Jim and Tegger are going on as if continuing to use
10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up or something.

 

With the new stuff your synchro clutches won't grab the way they were
designed to, and this could lead to accelerated wear of the synchros. That
is the theory anyway. If you know how to shift the vehicle properly it may
not be an issue at all. If you look in your owner's manual it will no doubt
specify API and SAE ratings for the type of motor oil they intended you to
use in 1987.

Earle

 

Yes, I know. I agree with your concerns and your reasoning
that were it really critical, Honda would have advertised
this to a much greater extent and explicitly said something
like, "Ignore your old owner's manual... "

My 91 Civic (182k miles) used the owner's manual prescribed
engine oil in the MT case up until last week. No problems
ever. Still, for the reasons I stated earlier, I switched. I
sleep a little better, so to speak, and my budget is no
worse off.

Earle's post seems level-headed as well. It's not so much
IMO a "you must switch" as it does seem like a good idea to
do so.

I do think the "best answer" as to which tranny fluid to use
at this point is the Honda MTF, based simply on interpreting
all the information those of us who are amateurs (which
might not include you or others, but does include me) have.

 

hey, thanks for the updated info all!

 

FWIW - I was not happy with gear shifting at low temperatures in either
my '87 Integra or '89 Legend and switched to Red Line MTL in both
transmissions sometime in the early '90s. Shifting dramatically
improved and neither transmission ever gave me any problem. I put at
least 120K miles on the Integra transmission and 130K miles on the
Legend transmission using Red Line MTL. Had it been available at the
time, I'd probably have used Honda MTL but I'm not about to change out
the Red Line MTL now.

 

The oil manufacturers have lessened the "ep" or extreme pressure
additive in motor oils at the request of car manufacturers because the most
prevalent additive used a zinc compound, and that shortened the life of
catalysts (and maybe o2 sensors).
The ep additive is not really important in an auto engine except in very
high revving engines at the cam to follower interface where there is
usually not a hydronamic condition, i.e. the parts are not entirely
separated by an oil film.
They are needed in a transmission, however. If you do not want to buy
Honda trans lube do some research into motorcycle oils as they have
identified this problem and many motorcycle oils have more ep additives,
but are probably just as expensive as Honda's trans oil.
If you drive normally and do not drive at 100 mph plus you can probably
do without the additives, but even if it added $20 to the cost of a trans
oil change I would do it, trans repairs are too expensive to risk.
When '87 manuals were printed engine oil had enough ep additives to work.
Honda is on the ball and trying to protect your transmission, you should
listen in this case but a little scepticism is a good thing, I don't think
and have not been able to find out if the brake fluid they use is special
in some way. Anybody know why we should pay extra for Honda brake fluid?
Scott

 

The Redline product is probably better anyway.

JT

 

I understnd the "theory". My point is, if it was really that big a potential
problem, the information would have been out there a little more noticably.

 

Yes yes, I've been paying attention, I understand all the reasoning. I'm not
talking about putting motor oil in a car that Honda says should have their MTF.

As I said elsewhere, my 87s have always run 10W30 in the tranny (actually, one
had a mix with 20W50 for a while, because that's all I had to top up with after
changing the CV shafts), none has ever failed me, over nearly a million and a
half combined kms, and I don't see Honday jumping out to tell me I should do
otherwise or "suffer the consequences". Yes, their MTF may be "better", but
HONDA isn't saying that I shouldn't be using 10W30 anymore, or that I should be
running out to drain every last drop of 10W30 from my tranny and replace it
immediately with MTF.

If Honda isn't that concerned about it, I don't know why everyone else here is.

 

use gm syncromesh

works perfectly and will also solve most grinding issues

if you care to argue, go to HT ans search syncromesh first ard read up
allittle