UAW forced to be paid as a Southern Foreign factory worker.

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Rock Hardson, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. Rock Hardson

    Jack Guest

    I'm "conservative" by nature...however the US is the only Western nation
    with health care. And with the upcoming massive job losses, more folks will
    not be covered by their employer's insurance. I've also had relatives in
    the US tell me the nightmares that HMOs cause, i.e. some conditions not
    covered etc..
     
    Jack, Dec 22, 2008
    #61
  2. Rock Hardson

    Jeff Findley Guest

    I'm guessing you meant the US is the only western nation without universal
    health care.

    Yesterday, I just got a letter from my physician's group which said they
    will not be taking our insurance after December 30, 2008. What a nice time
    of year for me to find out that I have to go search for a new doctor. My
    company's benefits enrollment is already "locked in" for next year, so I
    can't change insurance coverage.

    So yes, my insurance company is saving money by reimbursing so little that
    doctors are dropping them. :p

    Jeff
     
    Jeff Findley, Dec 22, 2008
    #62
  3. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    You mean "without" healthcare? Actually, if there is a medical emergency,
    one can go to a county hospital and they will treat you without insurance
    and the hospital will try and collect later. They do not deny health care in
    an emergency. I am not talking about elective surgery, but any kind of
    serious health care problem. The taxpayers foot the bill for this if the
    people cannot pay. This would not include things like reconstructive surgery
    for torn ligaments, which is usually considered elective surgery. In
    addition, there is Medicaid government insurance for poor people, and
    Medicare for those over 65.

    HMO's cover pretty much the same things that are covered in countries that
    have "free healthcare". Some "treatments" are not covered, because they are
    too expensive or experimental, just like in countries with free healthcare.
    In the US, one reason for our high health care costs is that way too many
    things are covered, such as Viagra, which even covered with government paid
    health care (when I say covered, I mean highly discounted prescriptions).
    Americans may not get their health care for free, but they are getting off
    much more often than in other Western countries.

    Those who complain about HMO's are usually given a choice of several
    different health care plans, and some choose to get the cheapest ones
    (HMO's) and then complain when coverage is not as good as the more expensive
    plans. When I say expensive, I mean the cost to the employee, which averages
    about 20% of the actual cost (this can vary from 0% to 100) and the company
    they work for pays the other 80%.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #63
  4. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    Wait until we get government run health care. They will pay even less than
    your insurance company. Even now there are many doctors who do not accept
    Medicare.

    BTW, it is unlikely that your insurance company is to blame. It could be
    that your doctor wants to charge more than he did last year, and/or he is
    not willing to accept the same as last year. It is unusual that an insurance
    plan will pay less to a provider from one year to the next. But even if that
    is true, it probably would have been initiated by your company who wants to
    pay less premiums.

    Insurance is optional. Most big companies with lots of employees are
    self-insured (they only pay a administrative fee to an insurance company to
    do claims administration), but even they are trying to reduce costs, so they
    may limit the amount they want to pay providers. The purpose of insurance is
    to mitigate risk when you have a small pool of insured persons. Any company
    can offer health care without being insured.

    Regardless of whether a company is self-insured or is insured by an
    insurance company for health care, the company can provide whatever level
    and amount of coverage they want if they are willing to pay the insurance
    company for what it will cost. The insurance business is very competitive,
    and there is not much profit in it these days. I don't mean to suggest that
    there is no profit, but it is not as much as one would think. The people who
    are getting rich are the doctors, and most of all the ambulance chaser
    lawyers who force doctors to pay about $100,000 for malpractice insurance.
    That's how John Edwards made all his money.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #64
  5. Rock Hardson

    edspyhill01 Guest

    I beginning to realize you make stuff up. You'll have to come up with
    vetted comparisons before I can stop laughing at your posts. I bet
    you didn't even go see "Sicko".
     
    edspyhill01, Dec 22, 2008
    #65
  6. Rock Hardson

    edspyhill01 Guest

    Useless comment. Has no reasons, facts, data, substance. Does that
    tactic work anywhere? Maybe in shot and beer bars.

    So you don't want the same health care coverage that Senators and
    Congressmen have?
     
    edspyhill01, Dec 22, 2008
    #66
  7. Rock Hardson

    GILL Guest

    Just a comment on auto insurance, and I may just be talking from my arse
    here, my brother who worked as an adjusters manager told me that the
    insurance co.'s made their big money from investing premiums into the
    stock markets. Might be the next one's in line for a bail-out?
     
    GILL, Dec 22, 2008
    #67
  8. Rock Hardson

    edspyhill01 Guest

    Republicans love and need lawyers more than any other group. Nobody
    can lawyer up faster than a republican.
     
    edspyhill01, Dec 22, 2008
    #68
  9. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    I agree that there is a lot of profit in the health care business, but I
    just don't think it is in the insurance companies (not much anyway). Anyone
    can start there own non-profit insurance company as I am sure there are
    enough left-wingers to fund one. But in reality, there are already many
    non-profit insurance companies. Blue Cross Blue Shield used to be 100%
    non-profit and provided the insurance for the majority of Americans at one
    time, although some in states they have converted over to for profit
    companies. Insurance companies are not the problem, although they appear to
    be because they are the ones who are trying cut the cost of medical care on
    behalf of those who are funding it (mainly corporate America). Also, most
    large companies are self-insured, and only pay insurance companies to do
    claims administration.

    Medical providers (especially physicians) make much more (probably 2-3 times
    as much) as those in UK, Canada, or France. That is a big part of the
    problem. I once went to an IT training class and there were some people from
    the UK there. One was an ex-physician who said he switched to IT because
    being a doctor in the UK did not pay enough.

    In 2007 the US total health care spending represented 17 percent of the
    gross domestic product (GDP), which is up from 8 percent in 1980. The
    percentage is expected to continue to rise. That is way more than UK, CA, or
    FR, and there are so many people on the gravy train that it will be very
    difficult to stop it. To make matters worse, if one did try to stop it, that
    would cause massive new unemployment, so no politician wants to mess with
    17% of the GDP right now with all our other problems.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #69
  10. Rock Hardson

    Mike Hunter Guest

    Why then are nearly ALL of the rich shark lawyer Dimocrats? LOL


    Republicans love and need lawyers more than any other group. Nobody
    can lawyer up faster than a republican.
     
    Mike Hunter, Dec 22, 2008
    #70
  11. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    All insurance companies make their money on investments and unfortunately
    many of them invested in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage backed bonds
    and they also issued credit default swaps.

    In the insurance business, the customer pays the premium in advance, so the
    insurance company can invest it. They usually just break even on the claims,
    although for property and casualty insurance it is a little more volatile
    (some profitable years and some losses) because of hurricanes and other
    natural disasters.

    That is how Warren Buffet got rich. He owns Geico and General Re (which
    sells insurance to insurance companies to mediate risk). He then takes the
    money and invests it.

    AIG, the largest insurance company in world was already bailed out by the
    Federal Reserve a few months ago to the tune of $85 billion. The reason is
    that held a huge number of mortgage backed securities. But the Fed took an
    79.9% equity position in the company in exchange for the $85 billion, so
    they could end making a profit down the road.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #71
  12. Rock Hardson

    Jim Higgins Guest

    He never bothered to look at links as to how other governments handle
    healthcare:

    Sick Around the World
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

    ====================================================================

    The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems
    http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

    "The world health report 2007 - A safer future: global public health
    security in the 21st century"

    Full report download as a .pdf file:
    http://www.who.int/entity/whr/2007/whr07_en.pdf (4.15MB)

    ====================================================================

    Healthcare For All: In Western Europe Its a Reality
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91972152

    France: Health Care for All
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91970968

    Germany: Health Care for All
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91971170

    Great Britain: Health Care for All
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91971293

    Netherlands: Health Care for All
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91973552

    Switzerland: Health Care for All
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91974014

    =====================================================================

    Health Care: An International Comparison
    http://www.npr.org/news/specials/healthcare/healthcare_profiles.html

    Netherlands' Health Care Reflects National Values
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92641635

    Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91931036

    France At Forefront Of Free, Innovative Cancer Care
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92362918

    While the U.S. Spends Heavily on Health Care, a Study Faults the
    Quality
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/business/17health.html

    After-Hours Doctor Calls Save Holland Money
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92606938
     
    Jim Higgins, Dec 22, 2008
    #72
  13. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    If you look at Congress, the percentage of Democrats who are lawyers is far
    higher than Republicans.

    If you look at presidential candidates since 1984, it is the same:

    Reagan, Bush 1, Dole, Bush 2, McCain - none were lawyers

    Modale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama - all lawyers.

    You are so full of crap.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #73
  14. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    I know how they do it, and I didn't even say I am against it.

    But the fact is that the quality of health care in the US is much higher
    than other countries if one is willing to pay, and even for the average
    corporate employee whose company foots 80-100% of the bill. But I don't
    think we can afford that level of quality anymore.

    But considering the number of people who get rich in the US health care
    business, it will hard to change it. Getting the government to pay is not
    going to help unless we drastically reduce the cost.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #74
  15. Rock Hardson

    80 Knight Guest

    I don't know what countries you are talking about, but here in Canada, I can
    choose whatever Doctor I want, I and my Doctor decide what treatment I get,
    and the waiting times are much less then most people think they are. As for
    you comment about age, that is pure bull shit.
     
    80 Knight, Dec 22, 2008
    #75
  16. Rock Hardson

    Mark A Guest

    I can't speak about CA but in most European countries if a patient has a
    serious disease and are over a certain age, they might not spend as much
    money treating you as if you were younger (depending on what the treatment
    costs are).

    You cannot go to "any" doctor and get free care, you can only go to doctors
    who are paid by the national health care plan. That is like an HMO and why
    people in the US complain about it. A lot of Canadians come to the US and
    pay for healthcare out of their own pocket, to get the treatment they want.
     
    Mark A, Dec 22, 2008
    #76
  17. Rock Hardson

    Mike Hunter Guest

    Besides the shark lawyers, one of the primary reason healthcare costs are so
    high in the US is BECAUSE of the government! It SETS the Medicare
    reimbursement rates very high. Any doctor or hospital that accepts
    Medicare patients MUST charge the SET Medicare reimbursement rates TO
    EVERYBODY or they can be charged with Medicare fraud!

    The reason the government sets the rates high is to pay the doctors and
    hospital to provide the so called FREE care to the indigent under the US
    Hill Burton Act. The government IS the cause NOT the cure.

    Our local volunteer ambulance corps was shut down by the feds for Medicare
    fraud. The feds took all of their money and sold all of their equipment
    and were ready to put the VOLUNTEER leaders in jail, untill a US Senator
    stepped in and stopped the lunacy. The problem was the Medicare
    reimbursement rate to the hospital, three miles out of town, was $750 but
    the corps only charged the VOLUNTEER fireman's insurance company $250!
     
    Mike Hunter, Dec 22, 2008
    #77
  18. Rock Hardson

    Mike Hunter Guest

    Really? I had an angina attack and went to the local hospital. The ER
    doctor their told me I needed to be seen by a cardiologist at once. Ten
    minutes later he was there. He sent me by helicopter to one to the best
    cardiology hospital in the world, just 50 miles away. When I arrived they
    gave me a test and told me I needed heart bypasses surgery. Only seven
    hours after my attack I was in the recovery room.

    My friend was hunting in Canada and suffered a hart attack. He was taken
    by ambulance on a five hour ride to a hospital. Thee DAYS later he was
    seen by a cardiologist, who told him he needed heart bypass surgery. The
    cardiologist told him they would put him on a monitor to watch him untill
    they could do the surgery in THREE to FOUR weeks.

    He engaged an air ambulance to take him the St Luke's in Milwaukie and was
    operated on the next
    day.

    Any America that thinks we should have government healthcare was never in
    the US military and if they were, they certainly were never in a VA hospital
     
    Mike Hunter, Dec 22, 2008
    #78
  19. I had a good job with a *BIG* corporation (at the time #3 in the Fortune
    500). It became very apparent there was going to be a layoff.

    I was *NOT* a good union member. We were coming up to contract
    negotiations, and there was word of a strike. Screw that. I was reading
    the WSJ every day and aircraft orders were waning.

    A real union dog came up and asked me what I was going to do. Cross the
    line, of course! Nobody in the friggin' union signs my paycheck.

    So I asked him, if it comes down to you getting $0.25 an hour more (we
    were making $17 and hour in 1991, full medical, dental, pension, etc) and
    watching 5 people walk out the door, what would you say?

    "Gimme the quarter".

    I would have taken a cut in pay, even back to $12~14 an hour. In a bad
    economy, a good job at lower pay is better than *NO* job at all.

    They got the quarter. We got the axe. The one good thing out of it all
    was, even though the other guy had been with the company longer, he went
    out the door before me.

    Stupid union dogs.
     
    Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B, Dec 22, 2008
    #79
  20. Rock Hardson

    Mike Hunter Guest

    If your company went belly up over $10 a week per employee, they were going
    to go under no matter what the Union did. LOL
     
    Mike Hunter, Dec 22, 2008
    #80
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.