Uncracked gas?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Dillon Pyron, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Dillon Pyron

    Dillon Pyron Guest

    Okay, this was way back. Like when we were driving an almost brand
    new 84 Escort GT. There was a gas station on I35 in Farmer's Branch
    (just north of Dallas) that sold various "high premium" fuels. One of
    them as 112 octane "uncracked". Just what does that mean?

    I'm "old enough" to have put Sunoco 120 in my 427 Galaxie 500. Um,
    when I was doing the quarter, it kind of needed it.
    --

    - dillon I am not invalid

    "Jimmy, I'm sorry your girlfriend turned out
    to be a cylon."
    -Special Agent Tim McGee, "NCIS"
     
    Dillon Pyron, Jun 25, 2009
    #1
  2. Dillon Pyron

    News Guest


    It was Sunoco 260.
     
    News, Jun 25, 2009
    #2
  3. Dillon Pyron

    Leftie Guest


    Taken literally ('cracking' is the process of using catalysts to
    separate the components of crude oil), it would have been crude oil.
    ;-) I'm assuming that it was a marketing term that refers to something else.
     
    Leftie, Jun 25, 2009
    #3
  4. Dillon Pyron

    Enrico Fermi Guest

    You have been misinformed. Distillation is used to separate the components
    of crude oil. One of the liquids the still produces is octane. Perhaps there
    were gas stations selling pure octane in the old days. Sounds implausible
    but.... The catalytic cracking unit (cat cracker) uses something called
    "gas oil" as its feedstock. It's like kerosene. The gas oil is cracked and
    reformed or alkylated to produce more gasoline than crude oil would contain
    naturally. All fairly low-tech now. As always, the goal in refining is to
    work safely and have no fatalities. Nobody want to end their shift
    deceased.....
     
    Enrico Fermi, Jun 26, 2009
    #4
  5. Dillon Pyron

    Tegger Guest



    Don't get a job with BP...
     
    Tegger, Jun 26, 2009
    #5
  6. All I can say that "cracking" is part of the refining process where
    individual hydrocarbon types are separated by specific temperature
    ranges. What it means in your reference is a mystery to me though..


    Weren't all Sunoco blends in the 200 range? Seems to me that My old
    Studebaker Avanti would barely tolerate "260" which IIRC was the highest
    available blend.

    JT
     
    Grumpy AuContraire, Jun 26, 2009
    #6

  7. At least not in the Houston area. More explosions etc that have killed
    several people.

    BP is not highly regarded in these heeyah pawts...

    JT
     
    Grumpy AuContraire, Jun 26, 2009
    #7
  8. Dillon Pyron

    Leftie Guest

    Amusing. I hope that wasn't a serious post. I'll have to remember to
    pick up some "liquid octane" on the way home from work...

    For those who want to know:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracking_(chemistry)
     
    Leftie, Jun 26, 2009
    #8
  9. Dillon Pyron

    Enrico Fermi Guest

    You are easily amused....Ignorance is bliss... Hope springs eternal....
    Your link doesn't work. Octane IS a liquid:
    Octane Definition: Any isomeric saturated hydrocarbon found in petroleum and
    used as a fuel and solvent.
     
    Enrico Fermi, Jun 26, 2009
    #9
  10. Dillon Pyron

    Jim Yanik Guest

    260 is what I recall.
     
    Jim Yanik, Jun 26, 2009
    #10
  11. Dillon Pyron

    News Guest


    It was Sunoco "Blue" 260. Top of the commercial line.

    The only thing better was the 115/145 purple avgas down at the air base.
     
    News, Jun 26, 2009
    #11
  12. Dillon Pyron

    Tegger Guest




    It worked for me.

    But more to the point of this thread is this page:
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_catalytic_cracking>




    For those interested...

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane>

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating>

    Note that "octane" and "octane rating" are NOT the same thing.
     
    Tegger, Jun 26, 2009
    #12
  13. Dillon Pyron

    Dh Guest

    Another purple pump.
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=953&dat=19580428&id=La4LAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YlUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2455,4372763
    drag image around as in google earth

    http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,1943645.html
     
    Dh, Jun 26, 2009
    #13
  14. Dillon Pyron

    jim beam Guest

    separation by temperature is called "distillation". "cracking" is
    either extreme heat [inefficient] or catalysis.
     
    jim beam, Jun 27, 2009
    #14

  15. A long time ago when a junior in high school, I "cracked" gasoline into
    components by temperature. That said, "octane" was one of these
    compounds. But rather than me try to explain it from memory, I found this.

    "One cannot talk about the chemistry of gasoline without understanding
    octane numbers. When gasoline is burned in an internal combustion engine
    to CO2 and H2O, there is a tendency for many gasoline mixtures to burn
    unevenly. Such nonconstant and unsmooth combustion creates a "knocking"
    noise in the engine. Knocking signifies that the engine is not running
    as efficiently as it could. It has been found that certain hydrocarbons
    burn more smoothly than others in a gasoline mixture. In 1927 a scale
    that attempted to define the "antiknock" properties of gasolines was
    created. At that time, 2,2,4-trimethylpentane (commonly called
    "isooctane") was the hydrocarbon that, when burned pure in an engine,
    gave the best antiknock properties (caused the least knocking). This
    compound was assigned the number 100, meaning it was the best
    hydrocarbon to use. The worst hydrocarbon researchers could find in
    gasoline (which when burned pure gave the most knocking) was n-heptane,
    assigned the number 0. When isooctane and heptane were mixed, they gave
    different amounts of knocking depending on their ratio: The higher the
    percentage of isooctane in the mixture, the lower was the amount of
    knocking. Gasoline mixtures obtained from petroleum were burned for
    comparison. If a certain gasoline has the same amount of knocking as a
    90 percent isooctane, 10 percent heptane (by volume) mixture, we now say
    that its "octane number" is 90. Hence, the octane number of a gasoline
    is the percent isooctane in an isooctane-heptane."

    From:

    http://www.chemistryexplained.com/Ny-Pi/Petroleum.html


    I remember my mother being semi terrified of my gas boiling experiments
    in the basement...

    JT
     
    Grumpy AuContraire, Jun 28, 2009
    #15
  16. Dillon Pyron

    Leftie Guest


    I wonder why. ;-) There is a difference between "iso-octane" ( a
    compound) and "octane rating" (a measurement). I was amused at being
    'corrected' by someone who didn't know the difference, and who thought
    gasoline was still made by 'turn of the century before last' methods.
    They don't generally add iso-octane to gasoline, they add other
    compounds and use the rating system based on it, as you explained. It
    also amuses me that people associate "high octane" with "highly
    explosive" because it's more the opposite: kerosene would have a much
    higher "octane" than gasoline, IIRC.
     
    Leftie, Jun 28, 2009
    #16
  17. Dillon Pyron

    Enrico Fermi Guest

    You have drawn conclusions from my reply that do not reflect my assertions.
    The term Iso-octane is not particularly descriptive since there are 18
    isomers of octane. I was referring to Normal Octane (n-octane) which is just
    basic octane liquid. Iso-octane can be one or all of 17 isomers:
    2-Methylheptane
    3-Methylheptane
    4-Methylheptane
    3-Ethylhexane
    2,2-Dimethylhexane
    2,3-Dimethylhexane
    2,4-Dimethylhexane
    2,5-Dimethylhexane
    3,3-Dimethylhexane
    3,4-Dimethylhexane (meso compound)
    3-Ethyl-2-methylpentane
    3-Ethyl-3-methylpentane
    2,2,3-Trimethylpentane
    2,2,4-Trimethylpentane (isooctane)
    2,3,3-Trimethylpentane
    2,3,4-Trimethylpentane
    2,2,3,3-Tetramethylbutane
    All of these, and many others, can be components of the gasoline we use to
    fuel our vehicles. Why you think otherwise is problematic. Do you have any
    background in refining? Benzene is no longer used as a motor fuel because it
    is so carcinogenic. Obviously, octane and octane number are two different
    animals. Forgive my assumption that you were sophisticated enough to draw
    this conclusion from my post. My bad. Also, kerosene does not have a high
    octane number. If you had spent some time with a knock engine you would know
    this. My research tells me kerosene has an octane number of "between 15 and
    25". Finally, your amused ignorance is becoming so very tiresome. You might
    want to think about picking-on someone who shares your limited intellectual
    prowess.
    "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's
    mouth and remove all doubt. (Voltaire)"
     
    Enrico Fermi, Jun 28, 2009
    #17
  18. Dillon Pyron

    Dillon Pyron Guest

    Brand name, not octane.

    --

    - dillon I am not invalid

    "Jimmy, I'm sorry your girlfriend turned out
    to be a cylon."
    -Special Agent Tim McGee, "NCIS"
     
    Dillon Pyron, Jun 29, 2009
    #18
  19. Dillon Pyron

    Dillon Pyron Guest

    Unless you're a trial lawyer (most of whom, ironically, don't go to
    trial).
    --

    - dillon I am not invalid

    "Jimmy, I'm sorry your girlfriend turned out
    to be a cylon."
    -Special Agent Tim McGee, "NCIS"
     
    Dillon Pyron, Jun 29, 2009
    #19
  20. Dillon Pyron

    News Guest

    Sunoco 260 was 102 octane
     
    News, Jun 29, 2009
    #20
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