Used engine from dealer

Ok few weeks ago I posted that my engine got hydrolocked. I took the
car to my acura dealer and they were given the go ahead by my
insurance to put in a used engine. A week later my car was ready for
pick up, they told me the engine they put in had 40,000 miles on it.
I was happy, so I drive the car home, on the way home the check engine
light comes on, so I do a U turn back to the dealer. They give me a
loaner car and few days later the receptionist calls me back to tell
me the engine they put in actually had 150,000 miles on it. Naturally
I was furious since my old engine only had 100,000 miles on it.

My question is, is there any way to tell how many miles a used engine
has? There has to be some kind of a paper trail that shows the true
miles on the engine. I asked the dealer and they gave me this hand
written note with the miles on it. I asked them for the receipt from
the place where they purchased the used engine from but they said its
not possible.

Seems to me like they can manipulate the miles on paper to whatever
they want. Any way to not get screwed?

Now I have already paid them over $4000 for the work.

Is it wrong for me to demand they take out the old engine and put in a
Remanufactured engine since I am guaranteed a reliable engine without
any wishy washy mileage issues?

thanks in advance

 

Paper trails for a vehicle in toto are common. But for an
individual engine, I am not optimistic that mileage can
easily be ascertained.

This sounds like total dealer bullsh-t.

Engine mileage issues in a situation like this are not
wishy-washy. You were promised an engine with 40k miles on
it, and presumably a price to match. Did the dealer take
anything off the original estimate to compensate you for
getting a more used engine?

What is the guarantee on this engine?

You are rightly concerned and IMO so far should take this
matter up further with the dealer.

 

I'd be wondering if the timing belt was changed.

Was the 40K promise in writing?

 

but your old engine is so badly damaged, it can't even be rebuilt -
/any/ engine is better than that.

you can examine for wear, yes. but you have to know what you're looking
for. can you do that?

and they would probably be correct in saying that.

you'd be foolish to do that imo.

it's most likely a low mileage jdm engine. generally, these are a good
deal, and a lot better than a rebuilt motor. rebuilt motors can be
awful where the head has been skimmed too much, the block skimmed too
much, and components insufficiently cleaned before assembly - they just
don't last.

i've had the luxury of examining the guts of a number of jdm motors in
junkyards, and for fact, all the ones i've seen have been in great
mechanical shape.

 

how often do you -find- JDM motors in US junkyards?

 

quite a lot. i've seen a bunch in the yards down in the san jose,
silicon valley, area. they're a very cost-effective alternative to
re-builds, or even stuff like blown head gaskets if you price in all the
labor.

 

Hi,
Isn't there an import outfit who is dealing in used Japanese engines
Good source of few year old engines with low mileage. Japan is small
country and mileage des not rack up. Also they don't keep cars too many
years due to government policy.

 

===================

Since it's out of an Integra, have the valves been adjusted every 30,000
miles? Very important. Ask any gen 1 CR-V owner that's had to have a
valve replaced.
:-(

'Curly'

 

Well if I had kept the engine they gave me it had a 100 day
guarantee. Today I talked to the Manager on the phone and told him no
one in the right mind would put in a 150000 mile on a better shaped
car. He said he will talk to my insurance tomorrow. My insurance
agreed to pay for a remanufactured engine so we'll see how it goes.

Now you guys are scaring me, I thought remanufactured engines were
good, some of them come with a real good warranty. errr so I have
heard.

 

remanufactured engines are better than broken engines, and if you drive
domestic, they're pretty much your only choice, hence the presumption of
it being a "good" option. however, they are never as good as oem in
reality. even if they are done by well intentioned honest shops, the
stats are that they typically last in the 50-60k range. [i got those
numbers from the owner of a taxi fleet i used to know.] compare this
with an original honda engine that will do 300k easily. if you get jdm
in the 30-40k range, you're much better off.

 

For a few years now there have been many sellers of used
Honda engines on the net. I just went to two sites and found
warranties of 180 days. See for example the Mileage and
Warranty sections of: http://www.jsamotors.com/FAQ.aspx . Or
google for {"used honda engines"}.

 

Cool thanks for your input guys, I just got a voice mail on my phone,
the manager is going to look for another used engine with less miles.
Now how can I really tell if they actually did change the engine? Is
there a serial number I can match on the receipt? If they take too
long I will give that jsamotors.com site as a back up.

 

I really think that mileage is very hard to ascertain. ISTM
the best bet is to make sure the engine comes from Japan,
where, as has been mentioned, certain laws require engines
to come out long before their useful life in the U.S. has
expired.

Remember, even having some kind of certification of engine
mileage can be misleading, since city driving produces low
mileage but high hours on the engine. I would actually
prefer lots of highway miles to lots of hours city driving.
Highway miles are not as hard on an engine.

Also, I am not so sure I would be unhappy with a 150k mile
engine. Lots of Hondas make it to 300k miles, per reports
here. These engines are tough! The tranny and body integrity
may be bigger concerns.

 

Yea 150000 miles sounds good if you have a much older engine, but less
the better. I talked to the manager, they found one with 65000
(supposively), I agreed, hopefully this one will last a while.

 

yes, there's loads. just google "jdm used honda engine".

 

Well, 'used' and 'remanufactured' are two different things, in my
mind. The former is an engine pulled out of a car and (while maybe
checked out internally) popped right into another car. A
'remanufactured' engine is one that has been basically rebuilt - bored
out, if
needed, new internals (pistons, con rods, crank, cam(s), valves, etc)
and is basically a new engine, for all intents and purposes. Mileage
is, for all intents and purposes, zero. There is a big difference
between the two. You need to clarify what the insurance company is
paying
for, then you can go and get all crazy with the dealer for putting in
a used engine (if the ins co is paying for a reman) or a little crazy
if
they are paying for a used engine and the dealer dug up one with more
mileage than yours had....

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

 

it's not quite that simple. first of all, the objective with a re-build
is to save money on replacement. unless too badly worn, practically
everything on your list is re-used except pistons, and maybe valves.
cranks are only replaced if cracked or too worn to be reground. cams
are frequently reground and reused too. con-rods are almost always reused.

so, what's the deal with all those re-used parts? fatigue and
accelerated wear. while parts are supposed to be checked for [fatigue]
cracking, cracks are very hard to detect in the nucleation stage, only
when they're well established do they become easy. a crank in
nucleation mode could easily be reused. that applies to the block, cam,
everything.

regarding wear, unless re-carburized [or re-nitrided], if a cam, crank,
or any other hardened part is reground, the thin casing of wear
resistant outer layer is partially removed. what's left, while
sometimes sufficient, often isn't. and testing is destructive, so you
can only sample, not test individual components.

bottom line, if you have a motor that typically lasts 300k miles, and
you get a used one with 30k on it, it's a much better deal than a
rebuilt motor whose fatigue history is indeterminate, and whose wear
resistance is definitely less that it would otherwise be. will it do
the mileage of the replacement oem engine - 270k? not likely!

google for the warranty you typically get on re-built engines. they are
remarkably short.

 

Well, I never really said which one was better. Frankly, I think I
would rather have a slightly-used engine than one that was
remanufactured, simply because in the latter, as you point out, you
don't really know what was put back in. But that's my personal
opinion. Used engines are cheaper, too, although with the insurance
company paying, I guess I wouldn't care about that.

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

 

If you put a used engine in the car the dealer or insurance company most
likely bought it from a junkyard/recycler. Usually the bill for that motor
will have the VIN the motor came out of. That is, if it's a reputable
junkyard/recycler.
Ask the dealer if he has the VIN number. If you get that then do a VIN
background check such as Carfax or AutoCheck.
If you need a referral or place to get a remanufactured motor try Howard
Engineering, http://www.hecreman.com/
I'm sure your dealer is aware of them. They are one of the most reputable
engine/transmission rebuilders you'll find. They were THE source, a few
years back, when Honda did not have reman transmissions of their own. They
offer 3 year 36000 mile warranty and longer. They specialize in Honda/Acura
and from what I've heard use only OEM parts in their rebuild. Good luck.
Howard

 

interesting that a guy named Howard is recommending a company named Howard
Engineering....