Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

when? how hard did they try? and what choice do the unions have if the
auto manufacturers collapse?

so what choice do they have if the industry collapses? 'cos their
precious jobs are sure gonna disappear quick if there's no industry left
to work in.

great, prop up the insanity. sort the problem, don't band-aid it.

wow, where do you get your information? i live by one of the affected
ports. the unions didn't strike, they were locked out. and it wasn't
bar codes, it was hiring of non-union labor to do inventory management
rather than train existing labor.

you've never been there evidently. i have, and i have family there.
unions there are /way/ more entrenched and expensive. yet they make
more for less. it ain't a union problem bud.

 

when? how hard did they try? and what choice do the unions have if the
auto manufacturers collapse?

so what choice do they have if the industry collapses? 'cos their
precious jobs are sure gonna disappear quick if there's no industry left
to work in.

great, prop up the insanity. sort the problem, don't band-aid it.

wow, where do you get your information? i live by one of the affected
ports. the unions didn't strike, they were locked out. and it wasn't
bar codes, it was hiring of non-union labor to do inventory management
rather than train existing labor.

you've never been there evidently. i have, and i have family there.
unions there are /way/ more entrenched and expensive. yet they make
more for less. it ain't a union problem bud.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=klDlEVkZh0A
VW's 282 mpg is nothing compared to the Toyota Corolla that runs on
water.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=klDlEVkZh0A
VW's 282 mpg is nothing compared to the Toyota Corolla that runs on
water.

 

everything you are suggesting has been looked at and failed.

Every time there's a new automation technology out, and right up
to the strike line. Do you seriously think they are having cars hand
assembled because they like it? don't think much of the plant
engineers do you?

they don't believe it'll happen.

I never said it was the right thing to do, but I don't make
federal policy.

incorrect. the employers wanted to keep their clerical staff
nonunion, the union wanted to expand to include the clerical staff.
It seems that it was a lockout, they had to get the technology
implemented and the union refused to do so, so that was that.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5168

Yep, been there, and you are the most abjectly full of shit
individual ever in history. Our unions force companies to pay
uneducated workers more than the starting salary for a ph.d, not the
case in europe. Also, in europe, the union cocksucker mentality is
not so pervasive as here.

 

everything you are suggesting has been looked at and failed.

Every time there's a new automation technology out, and right up
to the strike line. Do you seriously think they are having cars hand
assembled because they like it? don't think much of the plant
engineers do you?

they don't believe it'll happen.

I never said it was the right thing to do, but I don't make
federal policy.

incorrect. the employers wanted to keep their clerical staff
nonunion, the union wanted to expand to include the clerical staff.
It seems that it was a lockout, they had to get the technology
implemented and the union refused to do so, so that was that.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5168

Yep, been there, and you are the most abjectly full of shit
individual ever in history. Our unions force companies to pay
uneducated workers more than the starting salary for a ph.d, not the
case in europe. Also, in europe, the union cocksucker mentality is
not so pervasive as here.

 

True, but if I'm driving a stiff vehicle with no give, but I crash into one
that has plenty then I'm still protected, like hitting a barricade that
crumples on impact. If I hit a rock wall or some other object with no give
then I better hope I'm not going very fast. The crush zones of both vehicles
together matters more than which vehicle crushes, unless you're donating
your passenger compartment as part of that crush zone.

 

True, but if I'm driving a stiff vehicle with no give, but I crash into one
that has plenty then I'm still protected, like hitting a barricade that
crumples on impact. If I hit a rock wall or some other object with no give
then I better hope I'm not going very fast. The crush zones of both vehicles
together matters more than which vehicle crushes, unless you're donating
your passenger compartment as part of that crush zone.

 

So you've got time to chosew hich car you're going to hit when you crash ?

Hit another stiff car and you're as badly off as hitting the brick wall.

Why are Americans never ever capable of thinking where their stupid ideas
totally fall down ? And why do you engage in this insane rush to buy ever
heavier cars to 'protect' yourselves whilst moaning about the ever-increasing
cost of running them because you're making them more fuel thirsty.

Do please THINK !

Graham

 

So you've got time to chosew hich car you're going to hit when you crash ?

Hit another stiff car and you're as badly off as hitting the brick wall.

Why are Americans never ever capable of thinking where their stupid ideas
totally fall down ? And why do you engage in this insane rush to buy ever
heavier cars to 'protect' yourselves whilst moaning about the ever-increasing
cost of running them because you're making them more fuel thirsty.

Do please THINK !

Graham

 

I'm trying to find where I got that figure (the $1350 average); it might
have been US News, but maybe not. Anyway, the $100 figure for Toyota is
for the American-built model, as I understand it. They were able to
start with modern (at the time) facilities, automate a great deal, hire
non-union labor. They were also able to negotiate reasonable retirement
benefits.

I will continue to look for the source of those numbers - I saw it
within the last week - but I doubt I'll find it. Most stuff I read goes
by and if I don't capture it, I never see it again. So I can't back it
up - unless I do some additional research.

Their fundamental problem is paying for the improvements needed in
process and material. While it may be true that they are unable to
discern those needs, I don't believe it.

They could address it today, and *begin* doing what is needed to fix it.
In my opinion, the unions' stand is simple: if they go the way of the
dinosaur, they'll by god take the automakers with them. That may not be
the case, but I think it is. You seem to believe that they'll take less
in lieu of nothing; I think they've decided that less isn't worth it.
FWIW, I do not think that union labor is the only problem GM et al has.
But it's a big problem, and I don't see how they'll resolve it.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

I'm trying to find where I got that figure (the $1350 average); it might
have been US News, but maybe not. Anyway, the $100 figure for Toyota is
for the American-built model, as I understand it. They were able to
start with modern (at the time) facilities, automate a great deal, hire
non-union labor. They were also able to negotiate reasonable retirement
benefits.

I will continue to look for the source of those numbers - I saw it
within the last week - but I doubt I'll find it. Most stuff I read goes
by and if I don't capture it, I never see it again. So I can't back it
up - unless I do some additional research.

Their fundamental problem is paying for the improvements needed in
process and material. While it may be true that they are unable to
discern those needs, I don't believe it.

They could address it today, and *begin* doing what is needed to fix it.
In my opinion, the unions' stand is simple: if they go the way of the
dinosaur, they'll by god take the automakers with them. That may not be
the case, but I think it is. You seem to believe that they'll take less
in lieu of nothing; I think they've decided that less isn't worth it.
FWIW, I do not think that union labor is the only problem GM et al has.
But it's a big problem, and I don't see how they'll resolve it.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

looking at the quality of detroit product, or the lack thereof, looking
at the level of innovation and development in detroit product, or lack
thereof, looking at the pipeline bereft of new product, or lack thereof,
/those/ are the fundamental problems. /they/ are the elephant in the
room. blaming unions, who undoubtedly contribute, is nevertheless
fundamentally missing the point. convenient, headline grabbing,
distractingly divisive, yes, but fundamentally missing the point.

bottom line: detroit has been asleep at the switch for 30 years. they
suck. sort out quality, [management], sort out reinvestment
[management], sort out pipeline [management] and yes, sort out the
unions, [management]. bleating about unions when none of the rest is
being addressed is utterly retarded.

 

looking at the quality of detroit product, or the lack thereof, looking
at the level of innovation and development in detroit product, or lack
thereof, looking at the pipeline bereft of new product, or lack thereof,
/those/ are the fundamental problems. /they/ are the elephant in the
room. blaming unions, who undoubtedly contribute, is nevertheless
fundamentally missing the point. convenient, headline grabbing,
distractingly divisive, yes, but fundamentally missing the point.

bottom line: detroit has been asleep at the switch for 30 years. they
suck. sort out quality, [management], sort out reinvestment
[management], sort out pipeline [management] and yes, sort out the
unions, [management]. bleating about unions when none of the rest is
being addressed is utterly retarded.

 

i don't think you can collect and present a coherent argument.

i don't think you even read your own citation!

well, that shows how little you know. trained workers here get paid.
trained workers there get paid. untrained workers here don't get paid,
untrained workers there don't get paid. qualified tech professionals
there get paid /significantly/ less than their equivalents here.

http://www.newscientistjobs.com/search.action

eh? ever heard of a country called france? how about germany? they
get /national/ strike paralysis. i repeat - /national/ strikes. the
whole freakin' country shuts down. and you say /our/ unions are a
problem? you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

i don't think you can collect and present a coherent argument.

i don't think you even read your own citation!

well, that shows how little you know. trained workers here get paid.
trained workers there get paid. untrained workers here don't get paid,
untrained workers there don't get paid. qualified tech professionals
there get paid /significantly/ less than their equivalents here.

http://www.newscientistjobs.com/search.action

eh? ever heard of a country called france? how about germany? they
get /national/ strike paralysis. i repeat - /national/ strikes. the
whole freakin' country shuts down. and you say /our/ unions are a
problem? you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

The combined zones of two vehicles will not prevent serious injury, or
death, if the terminal speed of the collision is too high.

As one who designed crumple zone in the automotive industry, I can assure
you properly belted passenger, riding is a vehicle in which the passenger
compartment was no intruded upon, can and do die if the terminal speed of
the 'third collision,' where one organs strike the skeleton, is too high.

mike

 

everything you are suggesting has been looked at and failed.

That's because you don't bother to read, pay atention, or remove
your head from your ass. Your daddy is probably a union cocksucker
and it has colored your views such that you can't open your eyes. the
simple fact is that every new automation improvement is met by the
unions at the gate with a resounding NO!! US auto makers lead the
field in new concepts applied to vehicles, or at least did until they
were summarily strangled by union mandated bullshit. for example,
unibody, crumple zones, onboard computers, the assembly line, gps
navigation ALL originated in us cars, and were later implemented by
other countries, the issue is that we can not close our obsolete
plants, modernize the ones we have, or outsource to modern plants
without facing a strike by uneducated union cocksuckers like you. In
europe their unions strike ONLY when they have good cause, not to
prevent fucking barcodes from eliminating a few jobs by streamlining
the processes.

And I know you didn't read it. That article is spun as far
toward the dockworkers as it is possible to spin anything and still
comes off making them look like childish twats.

nope, shows that you are an ignorant arrogant piece of shit. The
redirect to a job-site for scientists europe was quite a clever line
of total bullshit with no potential whatsoever to prove anything. In
the US, untrained uneducated unmotivated union cocksuckers get paid
salaries approaching those earned by doctors, ($74,000 for dockworkers
on average vs $100,000 for doctors starting salary for civil engineers
$33,000) salary for auto workers in the US, $25/hr, or 50,000/year,
starting salary for an engineer at ford, $25,000. or for example,
union garbagemen make an average of 50-75000/yr, vs an mba starting
salary at $42,000. this list doesn't end.
Also note that the german automotive industry is in collapse now
with similar problems to ours in terms of innovation, quality and
pricing. and as for french cars.... what french cars?
Modern quality cars come from japan or the NON-UNION toyota
factory in the us. Unions produce nothing these days but dead
industries and jobs moved overseas.

Other countries with nonviable auto industries fail horribly to
prove your point. I wasn't saying that europe didn't have unions or
that they weren't pervasive, I was saying that the union cocksucker
mentality like yours wasn't so pervasive, and for the bulk of europe,
it isn't. you are just too fucking stupid for words. I tried to deal
with you rationally, but you just have your head too far up your ass.

 

everything you are suggesting has been looked at and failed.

That's because you don't bother to read, pay atention, or remove
your head from your ass. Your daddy is probably a union cocksucker
and it has colored your views such that you can't open your eyes. the
simple fact is that every new automation improvement is met by the
unions at the gate with a resounding NO!! US auto makers lead the
field in new concepts applied to vehicles, or at least did until they
were summarily strangled by union mandated bullshit. for example,
unibody, crumple zones, onboard computers, the assembly line, gps
navigation ALL originated in us cars, and were later implemented by
other countries, the issue is that we can not close our obsolete
plants, modernize the ones we have, or outsource to modern plants
without facing a strike by uneducated union cocksuckers like you. In
europe their unions strike ONLY when they have good cause, not to
prevent fucking barcodes from eliminating a few jobs by streamlining
the processes.

And I know you didn't read it. That article is spun as far
toward the dockworkers as it is possible to spin anything and still
comes off making them look like childish twats.

nope, shows that you are an ignorant arrogant piece of shit. The
redirect to a job-site for scientists europe was quite a clever line
of total bullshit with no potential whatsoever to prove anything. In
the US, untrained uneducated unmotivated union cocksuckers get paid
salaries approaching those earned by doctors, ($74,000 for dockworkers
on average vs $100,000 for doctors starting salary for civil engineers
$33,000) salary for auto workers in the US, $25/hr, or 50,000/year,
starting salary for an engineer at ford, $25,000. or for example,
union garbagemen make an average of 50-75000/yr, vs an mba starting
salary at $42,000. this list doesn't end.
Also note that the german automotive industry is in collapse now
with similar problems to ours in terms of innovation, quality and
pricing. and as for french cars.... what french cars?
Modern quality cars come from japan or the NON-UNION toyota
factory in the us. Unions produce nothing these days but dead
industries and jobs moved overseas.

Other countries with nonviable auto industries fail horribly to
prove your point. I wasn't saying that europe didn't have unions or
that they weren't pervasive, I was saying that the union cocksucker
mentality like yours wasn't so pervasive, and for the bulk of europe,
it isn't. you are just too fucking stupid for words. I tried to deal
with you rationally, but you just have your head too far up your ass.

 

bill wrote:

i must if i waste time responding to you! b-bye!