What about these gifts to Toyota

No. I described two specific projects and their final outcomes. If you think
"bribes" is a generalization, you're wrong. It's too strong a word, but I
interpret what actually happened as "bribery". One town council member
received enormous (legal) contributions from a construction company, which
expected something for its money after he was elected. The councilman gave
the rest of the board the hardest sell imaginable. His sales presentation
was based on lies, but apparently, that's not illegal.

 

Seems to me you just generalized.

We were talking about Toyota here. Toyota didn't have a layoff in
Evansville even though they *stopped* the Tundra line for a couple months.
They spent the time doing maintenance and cleaning the facility.

Notice, they aren't asking the government for money, either.

 

Your bass guitar question is attracting a myriad of interesting responses
over in a.g.b.

 

You don't think the union is part of the problem?
I can understand the Right's reason for wanting to bust the union. Unions
tell the rank and file to vote Democrat.

But, we were talking about Toyota here. No unions. And I don't think
anyone is working at a US Toyota plant for slave wages, do you?

Looks to me like it has more to do with management issues than politics.

 

Don't confuse your politics and sensibilities with the underlying
economics of a race to the bottom in which you, too, will eventually be
snagged.

 

And not selling the cars he was making. I don't support welfare, public or
corporate.

Of course, very little of the fault falls on Joe the Wrench Turner. Part
of it is the union, and a large part of it is on management.

But Toyota opened plants in areas where there was no auto industry. I
mean, Evensville IN wasn't exactly the heartbeat of the auto industry, was
it?

The problem lies more with management wanting to keep up high profits than
having satisfied customers.

That's not really Joe's scope. He just installs lug nuts.

Do I have a lot of sympathy for someone in Detriot possibly having to
give up a few $$$ an hour? Don't count on it. I do high tech work for ~$20
an hour. YEARS of training. Do I feel sorry for someone with a high school
education making $32 an hour?

Don't count on it. I mean, good for him, but it's not going to break my
heart if he loses $10 an hour.

And if he doesn't like it, I'll take his job, since I don't get benefits
or a pension with this job.

 

If Joe Blow is making $40/hr to work on an assembly line, that is a
problem. That's $83,200 a year. That's certainly unsustainable when
plenty of people more skilled/educated aren't making that much. Hell, I
don't make that much, and housing prices etc. here are at least 4x here
what they are in Detroit. I didn't make that much as an engineer at a
Michigan-based auto industry supplier, either.

Surely you are not suggesting that basically anyone with a high school
education and a little mechanical aptitude is *entitled* to 80K a year
plus benefits? Sure, it'd be sweet if we could do that, but we just
can't afford to. So you have a choice - get a living wage, or nothing
for the workers.

Your "argument" has done nothing but bias me *against* the UAW, assuming
your numbers are factual...

nate

 

And who's fault is that? If Detriot wanted Toyota plants, they should have
bid on them. They didn't, they lost.

The real bottom line is that another area is enjoying prosperity, and an
area with a lower cost of living as well. Quality of life took a big
increase.

But these aren't things GM is really concerned about. They are far more
concerned about the bottom line.

Toyota actually has some interest in it's workers, and has for years. Long
before they came to the US

 

http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=562
Yeah, Toyota really cares...

 

Your bias is showing....

The "race to the bottom" is a general theme. Applies widely, outside
the auto industry. You see it everywhere outsourcing is involved. You
see it when New Jersey subsidizes the move of Wall Street jobs across
the river.

Howe about YOUR job? Is it immune?

 

Why cut their own throats?

Tell it to Flint, Michigan.

True, that's part of the quarterly results dance with Wall Street.

You sure about that?

 

Maybe that other Joe Blow didn't deserve to be making $40 per hour.

 

Flint MI is a perfect example of GM's race to the bottom: unrealistically
high wages and benefits paid to GM workers, that make manufacturing cars
there unprofitable.

 

How about you? Whatever you make, there's someone somewhere who will do
a better job for less. Worried?

 

Or was it poor management, factory design, product development and quality?

 

The argument in current and quite to the point. The unions will not allow
robots to take over their jobs. By the time all the current workers die, the
US autoworkers will be out of business. In the meantime, they move
production offshore.

 

Obviously there is some small property tax on the undeveloped land, but you
can't tax a factory or retail store that doesn't exist, so the idea that you
are giving up taxes is wrong. You can't give up something you don't already
have.

 

That is sort of like saying that because the governor of Illinois seeks
bribes for appointing someone to a vacated senate seat, that governors
should not be given the authority to do this in any state.

Or like saying that because some students cheat on exams, that schools
should just abolish them.

How about this: since a fair number of people cheat on their taxes, let's
abolish taxes and then this argument about tax breaks becomes moot.

 

In some locales, vacant land is still assessed at hefty rates based on
"potential", an absurd idea, but still, it happens.

 

No, it's nothing like that at all.

No, it's nothing like that at all.

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