What about these gifts to Toyota

Just because they borrow $350 million does not mean it is a subsidy. If a
town has new residents, they usually need new roads, schools, sewers, etc.
Governments almost always borrow to build out these things, it doesn't mean
its a subsidy. Even if there were no tax breaks to the company moving in,
the government would borrow money to build out the infrastructure for the
new residents.

BTW, there is no tax break on the homes of the employees, and other
businesses that sprout up to support the new residents. So there is plenty
of tax revenue to pay off the bonds used to build out the infrastructure.

I am sure that there are cases when the tax subsidies are irrational and it
would be a mistake to offer tax breaks in every case. However, when I hear
the outright distortion and lies from arguments like this, when we know the
government always borrows money for capital improvement projects, then it
discredits the people who make these outrageous claims.

 

In my job, I am compensated fairly for the work that I do. I don't get
more for installing pieces parts on an assembly line than did the
engineer that designed those parts.

So, yes, in short, I feel that my job is more secure than that of a UAW
worker.

nate

 

Introduce him to my boss. He'd love to get another one of me for less
money, and I'd still have my job.

nate

 

Poor management? Yes, management acquiesced to outrageous union demands.

Factory Design? The union contracts did not allow them to automate if it
meant reduction in jobs.

Product development and quality? They designed cars that could be assembled
by a union workforce that doesn't give a damn about quality, so they have to
lower their expectations of what a union factory worker can build.

 

There are lots of people who "claim" to be doing my job for less, mostly in
India. Those projects have a high failure rate and then they usually have
hire me to fix them.

 

In a few places, yes. But that is usually where the area is already
developed with other similar businesses and there happen to be a few empty
lots. This is not the situation when they decide to build an auto plant in
the South in rural undeveloped land. In fact, they usually have to get a
zoning change just to build there.

 

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Maybe you should take a college level course in logic.

 

In Long Island many years ago, farm land used for cabbage & potatoes was
being assessed at rates meant for McMansion developments and fancy
vineyards. It was driving farmers out of business until the law was changed.

No more generalizations, please.

 

Are you assuming that I think all public assistance to corporations should
be eliminated?

 

You said it.

 

All observation about economics and politics is generalization. This is
especially true in a Republic like the USA, where we have state and local
governments that can do different things (much to the consternation of the
left who are basically totalitarians).

In the specific cases we are discussing, where companies are building plants
in the Southern part of the USA, I can assure you that things are quite
different than in Long Island NY (where the poor Walmart temporary worker
was crushed to death by the barbarians who live there).

In Mississippi, and other places in the South where manufacturers have
received tax breaks for building plants, the proposed land site yielded
extremely low property taxes before the factories were built there. So
there were no taxes to give away, because the companies would not build
there without the tax break.

But in reality, this whole argument has nothing to do with taxes or
economics, it is about race and regional warfare. Those in the Northern
parts of the US are at war with the South. Northerners believe that those
from the south (white or black) are inferior intellectually, and the
Northerners don't like it when the South starts stealing the manufacturing
base away from them.

All this other stuff about economics is a smokescreen. Do you really think a
Northerner cares whether the South makes a big financial mistake and gives
too many tax breaks and the government there goes bankrupt? No, they would
love that. The Northerners only care when the Southerners start stealing
their jobs. This is no different than if the job is offshore, because people
in the North hate Southerners just as much as they hate Mexican, or Indian,
or Chinese workers.

 

That is a bold-faced lie. Grow up.

 

But you're still mixing apples and bat guano here...

 

I looked a little earlier. I'll go back...

 

Ya think??!?!

This goes back to the days when Henry was paying $5 a day.

Problem was, he CONTINUED paying $5 a day.

GM stepped in and upped the ante, and then stayed at that price.

Then the unions came in, and really fu@ked things up...

 

You made the argument that because in your local community (or one community
you know about) the tax breaks were given because of bribery, that therefore
all tax breaks should be eliminated.

If one applies that same argument to other things where bribery has occurred
(to eliminate it because sometimes there is bribery involved), then it would
be obviously ridiculous.

If you had taken a college level course in logic (and understood it) then
you would see the logical fallacy of your original argument.

 

Not really, if you think about it. If the councilman got LEGAL campaign
contributions, and in return, sold the project to the council, there had to
be something else in it for him, either while he was a councilman or
something expected in the future. I wonder what. It doesn't matter, really,
because publicity helped to hack his legs off at the knees, so to speak.

I got to the truth just by stopping into our town hall one day and asking to
see the business plan, which was mysteriously missing from the town's web
site. Some town planning droid told me the Army Corps of Engineers was
handling the business plan. Ding ding ding...WRONG! They don't handle that
kind of thing, which I already knew, but confirmed with a couple of phone
calls to the ACOE. I called another council member, who said "Yeah...there's
no plan, and the marina is about to die a slow death." Further inquiries
indicated that the council realized that publicity was about to make them
(accurately) look stupid, lazy, crooked or all of those things.

 

That is a bold-faced lie. Grow up.

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Bald faced, I think, is the correct term, although it makes no sense, but
neither does "practice their love with women".

 

Yup. I've been 'scaled back' three times now.
I'm in the computer industry. I've remained stasis for 7 years now,
because the kids coming out of trade school are willing to do what I do
for less.

Where's my subsidy?

Every time I've been scaled out, I've learned something new and moved up,
but usually to the wage I was previously making. Luckily, I get by well on
that, as long as gas doesn't go up. So I drive Jap cars to get around that.

So, you're implying auto workers are stupid?

 

Yup! That's what I do, but I fix Chinese foul-ups.