Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

Probably tire noise. The IS shipps with 45-series 17" tires, with
55-series 16" a no-cost option. The 3-series ships with (I think)
50-series 16" tires, with 40 or 45-series 18" tires an option. My IS
had Dunlop 9000 tires-- a fantastic rain tire, pretty good on dry
road, and noisy as heck. However, it has not a hint of wind noise.

 

And stir the pot it has. I believe that most toyota power trains need
little or no maintenance

I've had two Toyotas a 81 Celica and 88 Camry plus 3 cars out of the
joint venture with GM and Toyota in Calif. 86 Chevy Nova, 96 Geo
Prizm and a 04 vibe

And to use your stereo type, I just get in and drive. The dealers
never see me again. I change the synthetic oil twice a year whether
the engine needs it or not.
and I have no doubt that any of these vehicles will go 200,000 miles
with no problems. And I find that the Calif. toyotas are just as
study as their Japanesse, Kentucky and Canadian counterparts.

 

It won't sell too many if they make one just like BMW, like BMW will
never as many as Honda in the US,because BMW's supension is too stiff
some people like that but many other don't.

 

I lived in Japan a couple of years, and you just have to look at the
people, and the answer to this question is apparent. Japanese tend to
be conservative people, very patient. They will stand in lines very
patiently for hours. They do not like risk very much. They think about
getting form point A to point B without incident.

I am also married to a German wife, and her family, most of whom are
still in the old country. They are not adverse to risk. They want to get
from point A to point B fast. They do not worry too much about problems
that might ocur along the way. They love high performance machines.
Patience is not the German way.

 

Luxury German cars sell well in Japan to those who can afford them, as
does US high end audio and Leica cameras. It's a cost issue.

 

There's something called a "patent." BMW engineered a good suspension and had
the wisdom to file a patent (actually, dozen of them) for it.

Computer makers pay IBM a royalty fee for every PC made. IBM owns the patents
and licenses them to clone makers. Apparently BMW chose not to.

 

"when Lexus decided to build a "3 series killer" which is the IS and came
short"... well, not exactly.

The 3-series killer was supposed to be the GS300, but its soft suspension gave
the GS "couch on rollers" handling. Never mind killing the 3-series, the GS
couldn't even compete.

Toyota looked around in its arsenal and decided to bring the Toyota Altezza
over here and gave it a straight-six engine. Sure it outhandles the 3-series
(by a very slim margin,) but its bone-jarring ride is simply unacceptable in
the luxury sports sedan segment.

 

Toyota's design philosophy is backwards. They are trying to take a sedan
and turn in into a 3 series. BMW started with a tiny rally-racing type
car(the 1600/2002) and built it into a nice sedan over the years.

The whole THING about BMW is the suspension and that their smaller
models still handle the same as their older models(which were much
lighter and smaller - no easy feat). Every 3 series they make has
this as a primary design goal - that it must feel and handle like
a small rally-racer, or as close as possible. The luxury feel is
nice, but secondary.

Toyota would do far better if they, for instance, took the MR2 and
made it into a sporty sedan.

Exactly. They don't know how to do the sport and luxury thing as well.
They can build faster or better handling cars, but they just don't
have that zip-zip light on its toes feel of the 3 series.

 

That's your opinion. I like the firm ride more than the ride of the
330i

--

 

Who was it who once said, "There are two classes of people who buy used
BMWs - BMW mechanics, and those who want to be." Better they should just
find a 12-year old Civic and tart it up.

-psmith

 

Look at the OLD Nissan/Datsun Bluebird and Cherry engines. Anything familiar?
The OHV unit is almost an exact copy of the British Mini/MGB unit.... Why? They
(Like BMW) made Austin cars under licence after WW2. The Nissan OHC (Bluebird &
280Z) engine! Copied from Mercedes with obvious changes
Yes they do and even if they don't copyright come into it.
I think that what a car LOOKS like has more to do with it than what the
engineering is. Ford Escorts here in the UK along with Peugeot 20? & 30? +
Honda etc. are bought because of looks and rally win success. The geeks then
spend hundreds of pounds/dollers to actually make them go and handle like the
race/rally cars when in fact given the total spend the M3 would be in easy
reach. THe obsticle is the insurance. Bacic 1.1L ins and don't mention the
mods lets them drive the thing until they run intp you or someone else then NO
INSURANCE and you're buggered!

Oh no they don't!

IBM placed the "PC" in the public domain and the only thing they actually
patented was the BIOS. Everything else was and still is "free" to play with.
The only real thing the IBM did was to issue STANDARDS and because of these
standars when I type A and send it to you -- you see A in exactly the same plase
as I put it.

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:23:14 GMT, Joseph Oberlander

Bits from previous stuff---------------------------

As does all 18 - 25 year olds when they buy/accquire their first car. Remove
stock wheels and put on alloys = 25MPH extra. Blacked out windows = 15mph,
different lights = 10mph Oh! I forgot the super loud bass expander stereo system
that can be heard in the next county/state = 50 mph or a shag twice a night with
different girls.

Remember that EVERY car you buy from the maker is a compromise. It must carry
all the folks that it has seats for, one must be able to listen to the radio
etc. without having to twiddle with the volume control at every 5mph increment
in speed. It must go around corners safely and at a reasonable acceptable speed
for the road conditions and speed limits that apply in the country of sale.

If you want extra the you play afterwards but at what cost and what gain.
Toyota gain small $$$ big gain. BMW mega $$$$ little gain as it's already been
done!

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

Wusses. We all know REAL cars have back seats made for munchkins.

WHAT??? WHAT??? I can't hear you over my engine's roar at 5000 rpm.
Refinement can be taken a bit to far. I like my cars to have a soul
instead of being yet another droid.

 

At the risk of getting screamed at, I would like to add a little twist
to the original query: Why can't Toyota or Honda make a car that
drives just like...an Olds 88?

I own a 93 Lexus e300 and a 94 Oldsmobile 88. The Lexus has 210 000
Km on it and the Olds 300 000. There is no comparison between the two
cars. The Olds is much quieter, more powerful, much more economical
on gas, much more spacious,and it nearly never breaks down. Its ride
is as smooth as silk. Cross winds don't affect it at all. Parts are
much less expensive and it is more resistant to corrosion.

On the minus side, it has a trombone case interior, big ugly dashboard
knobs, and I have to slow down in sharp curves because it kind of
waddles. Sitting inside I look and feel like the 65 year old male that
I am. (But I'd would much much rather have the waddling than the kicks
in the butt I get in my Lexus everytime I run over pavement joints.
Who needs to go into expressway ramps at 70 mph anyway?)

Before the Lexus I had a Chevrolet Celebrity which I gave to a needy
relative when my son's Lexus became available. When I gave it away,
the Celebrity had 500 000 km, with its original transmission and
engine with no major power train repairs during the 14 years I owned
it. The Olds is made out of the same cloth I think. Never had to add
a drop of oil between oil changes in either car..

But now, I'll be honest with you. If I had to give up the Olds or the
Lexus. Guess what I would do? I would keep the Lexus. Why ? For
the same reason a person would pay $20 000 for a Rolex rather than $30
for a Timex that does just about exactly the same thing. I can't help
it, my ego gets a boost when I drive into a parking lot, or a friend's
driveway, or when I answer 'Lexus' when the guy at the counter what
kind of car I drive. Crazy, but that's what makes the economic world
go round.

Sitting in my leather-clad Lexus, I still look like a 65 year old
male, but I certainly don't feel it.

If GM ever figures out a way to get around that image thing, they've
got it made. But until then, how could we convince Honda or Toyota to
make Oldsmobiles in disguise and astound every critic with cars that
are quieter, more powerful, smoother riding, more spacious, and
cheaper on gas?

Time to duck.

André

 

My Honda is far more powerful than any GM. Just because an engine is
rated with so many horse power does not make it so.

It is more than half as quiet.

No Gm product ever rode 1/4th as smooth as a Honda.

Who cares how much room a car has if it has more than you need? I
could drive a fucking bus to work, but why?

Imports get far better gas mileage.

So I have to wonder, where do you buy the shit you smoke?

 

Never had a Oldsmobile, have you? My last Oldsmobile ('92 Silhouette, 3.8
V6) was quieter, more powerful, rode smoother, more spacious, had a bigger
gas tank, and got better mileage than the Honda Odyssey that replaced it.
You shouldn't pretend to know about places you've never visited.

 

i guess thats why that division is being phased out.

 

Isn't that the car company that gm decided to close...

 

Doesn't make you any less an idiot.

 

No, actually it's a bean counter decision. Too many car divisions producing
the same car, just different nameplates and different dealers making a buck
on the same boring junk!