Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

MAny can't wait for the ROVER/MG (Ford) V8 engined 4WD sports sedan but it too
will never be a BMW nor a FORD Special - even BMW buy diesel engines from Toyota
and Peugeot as do FORD, VOLVO etc.

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
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No, they bought the design and tooling when GM was done with it.
As Range Rover did by buying the old GM (Buick 240?) aluminum block
V-8. If they don't license the design or buy it, an outright copy
will bring them lots of grief, as the original designers (and possible
patent holder) hauls them into court...

You can open it up and steal a few design solutions (and claim that
they were obvious), but not make a direct copy of said design. Too
easy for the original inventor to prove their case.

Someone brought up PC Clones recently - they did not copy the IBM PC
BIOS (it would have been too easy to show the copied sections of
code), they had to reverse-engineer it. By having one team document
exactly what the BIOS did and how it did it in excruciating detail,
and then having a separate 'clean room' programming team (people that
had never worked for IBM, so they couldn't be accused of stealing
trade secrets) design a program from scratch that reacted as the
design document said it needed to. Right down to the bugs.

--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA

WARNING: UCE Spam E-mail is not welcome here. I report violators.
SpamBlock In Use - Remove the "Python" with a "net" to E-Mail.

 

Why do you say that.....?

This is a BMWnewsgroup or are you watching elsewhere?

Trolling is not my nature but posting to several NG is a usual sign.

If you are not trolling or spamming acept my apologies but I agree with you that
some Jap cars last a long time especially where it doesn't rain or near the
coast. Africa buys 90% of European scrapped Nissans and Toyotas for spares to
keep the old ones running. The body lasts because there is no need for road
salt to melt the ice and very little rain and what does fall is distilled (pity
it not whisky)

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

You notice I used another description before the Bangalized reference - I
find some of their previous designs questionable as well. The Z3 to me is a
great looking car from the rear 3/4, but looks like someone was trying way
too hard from almost any other angle - it lacks the simple elegance that
something like the Miata in both of it's generations or the Honda S2000 has.
The 8 series had a front that tried to mimic the M1 with a rear of a Ford
Granada (or is it a mid-80's Mazda 626?) and the heft of an aircraft
carrier. Elegant, it is not.

Me too. I spent some time in the UK for a while (a long time ago) - so I
heard many stories about their mechanical shortcomings, so despite the fact
that some of them are works of art - I would not want to own them. I
understand that you have better luck with the new one (It's amazing that for
a Jag the Ford connection means quality, huh?)

Ron.

 

The main reason that people choose to fork these extras is image. Most of
the drivers can not tell the subtle difference between the really close
competitors. As for the "Ultimate DRIVING Machine" - great ad copy. Of
course, some people find it hard to accept from machines that keep on
mashrooming in weight and luxury options and keep on coming with bigger and
stronger engines to mask the deficiency of all this weight.

Ron.

 

As I said --- "want something DIFFERENT" Actually I haven't seen the latest
CRAP from the GM stable but when they tried to sell RHD Caddy's in the UK they
pulled out after 18 months - even took the Pontiac Firebird and Chevy Camero
with them (Boo Hoo) even though both are now dead in the water...

America has been downsizing for years - something about CAFE (corporate average
fuel economy) and GM are buying into IZUZU and Nissan, Ford are buying into (or
bought 50% of) Mazda (US Escort was Euro Mazda 323)

The US was ready for a NEW Caddy! Along came Toyota with the LEXUS and built it
in the US..... Why should BMW worry? No pedigree!

The US is supposed to be "classless" and to a point it is but! and that's a BIG
but... There are class divides and the BMW, MERCS and general Euro
"Sports/elite" cars will always rise above the cluless Caddy owner.

However, I see that all the scrap Stretch Limos are being shipped to the UK for
all the wannabe stars to use.

Most of the 15 year olds at my school came to the "leaving prom" in hired OLD
Caddy limos with the rust bubbling through the fenders and chrome peeling from
the gutters and - yes you guessed it - the cars are sagging in the middle due to
too muche weight over the years. One company has gutted one and fitted an old
truck diesel engine (smells like an old truck stop) and rattles as much --
Limos?

Have you seen the Caddy sports car ????? Ugh!

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

MAny can't wait for the ROVER/MG (Ford) V8 engined 4WD sports sedan but it too
will never be a BMW nor a FORD Special - even BMW buy diesel engines from Toyota
and Peugeot as do FORD, VOLVO etc.

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

ummm, all Lexus are built in Japan, where as some mercedes (ML class), and
BMWs (X5) are built in the states, and this trend will expand a lot more.

 

I often find it even surprising that Japanese cars are often taken by some

That is very true. I have found a lot of red neck people who still
think that American cars are classy and high quality cars whereas,
Toyota, Honda etc. are still cheaply made and very low quality cars
with lots of rust problem and that their "Tiny" engines die down in a
few years ( it could be white supremicist people as well). This kind
of ignorance really sets me off. These people are still living in the
70s and 80s. I have rendered people speechless in this kind of debate
since this is grossly untrue and the truth on the contrary is
completely opposite.

Best Wishes and Regards,

Faisal A Sheikh

 

I though I read somewhere that Lexus just began producing
one of their SUV models in the US.

Andrew

 

I can't believe all you ppl lauding German style and quality in a
Honda newsgroup. With the exception of the 7-series Beemers and the
Mercedes roadsters (SL, Z), all their cars have been butt-ugly for 50
years! But, that's all subjective. Quality is quite another thing.

Euro car quality is a myth. My friend has two Mercs the same year as
my Civic ('87), and both of them have been in the shop more than mine,
their paint peeled before mine, and the seats in the mercs (sedans)
are some of the most tortuous racks I've ever endured. The dash top
on a friend's newer Beemer split open like a cheap sofa (uv damage)
while mine only has a minor crack. I pooh-poohed Jap cars for years,
buying only American, yet believing the European quality myth. Then,
I finally bought a Honda and watched in awe as all my yuppie friends
cursed their high dollar Euro-cages as they fell apart at about the
same rate as American cars. I'm glad I never bought a German car.
I'da been really pissed.

Here, in the San Francisco Bay Area, Hondas have the highest resale
value, after five years, of any car sold, including BMW's and
Mercedes. The reason is simple. They're better cars.

nb

 

ummm, all Lexus are built in Japan, where as some mercedes (ML class), and

I have no rattles in my made in Japan CR-V. while I had some in my Civic and
the 2003 Accord owners seem to be reporting them over and over on this NG.
Ford Focus in Europe is made in Germany, as well as the Mondeo and they get
great reviews, here...
My parents in law have/had 3 old made in Germany Jettas, all of them well
over 300000km and still going. The new Jettas are made in Mexico or
Brazil...
But hey, what do you expect. Look the clothes you're wearing. I bet most of
them are made in China.

 

In fact they hire American stylists -- most Japanese cars are designed in
southern CA. And most frequently, designers seem to come from Art Center
College of Design in Pasadena. This is particularly true of Toyota (ie Lexus).

Matt O.

 

I agree with that. Honda is inarguably the most advanced car company in the
world when it comes to technology, and quality. However, their cars still don't
have the dynamic quality of the European makes -- which still just feel better
to drive. The IS300 does, though. (I haven't driven an NSX. I'm sure it does
too.)

That said, I'd still opt for a BMW, though the preference is slim, and could
easily be swayed by the quality of the dealer. Also, given a choice between a
brand new Integra or Mazda 6, and a few-year-old 3 Series, I'd definately take
the latter.

Matt O.

 

I would sooner trust a vehicle made in Japan than in the US. The workers
there have a better work ethic than in the US, where everybody thinks
somebody else owes them something, and the CEOs are grabbing up all the cash
and perks they can steal. The business model here is flawed. The Japanese
are taking a real risk allowing Americans to build their cars. I'll say
this, though, I'll bet the Japanese are not buying American-made Toyotas or
Hondas...

 

To be fair, a tarted up BMW with extra low profile tires, etc., looks pretty
juvenile too. And I see a lot of older BMWs (affordable to juveniles of all
ages) being driven in juvenile fashion.

Matt O.

 

Your are talking about the Lexus RX 300 (now it is called RX 330). It
is built in Cambridge Ontario. The first plant outside Japan to
produce Lexus. The Fremont recently started bulding Camry Solara,
which was previously only built in Ontario and now they will be
upgrading the facility in Fremont to produce the RX 330 and the new
Corollas with moonroofs (this will cost $6 million US alone) since all
of the Corollas Sport and LEs in North America that have moonroofs are
made in Cambridge as well.


Best Wishes and Regards,

Faisal A Sheikh

 

In fact they hire American stylists -- most Japanese cars are designed in

Lexus).

It is all matter of taste, but in my opinion, almost all new Toyotas and
some Lexus are the ugliest new cars I've seen lately.

 

Hey, don't say *just* a Mondeo/Contour -- they're great driving cars. Excellent
dynamic capabilities, but zero cachet... to think they sold for less than a
Jetta! They're really cheap now, and have really low insurance rates -- nobody
wants them! A great stealth freeway fighter and inner city neighborhood
survivor for LA... The LX Sport with the firm suspension is almost as good as
the SVT, but looks like a rental car...

And you're right about Jags...

Matt O.

 

Probably Mazda, too. When I took a photography class at the Art Center,
there were Mazda banners all over some of the automotive design rooms.