Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

Yes, 20 year, BMW has been making the "sport sedan" type cars for awhile
now, where as toyota has been focused on the affordable family car.

That I6 in the IS is a very capiable engine, albeit the fundimental design
of it is about 10 years old. Ask the people who MOD these engines, that I6
can handle 700+HP...try doing that w/ the M3 engine, that thing can hardly
handle what it has now, have you read about the engine blowing in the brand
new M3s?

That's sad, because Toyota has better

 

From everything I read the S2K is head and shoulders better than the Z3 and
holds it's own against the Boxster and Z4. I suspect that when Honda really
wants to do something - you better watch out. The moment a RWD small sedan
from Acura appears will be a very interesting moment in this segment.

As for dynamic quality - Mazda seem to be very good as well in their RWD
cars - chassis wise - I would take a Miata any day over a Z3 and the new
RX-8 gets nothing but rave reviews about it's dynamic qualities. The late
3rd Gen RX7 was also a very capable machine.

Ron.

 

The Miata was designed at the Mazda center in Irvine, California.

 

Patents and trademarks. Why spend 80,000$ on a porsche when you can pay
45,000$ and get a BMW? That's why Porsche is Porsche, Lexus is Lexus and BMW
is BMW. Otherwise, we'd all be driving the same car.

Regards,
Dave

 

Apparently Porsche has been asking themselves the same question, and they
are having a hard time justifying the status quo. Why buy a 911 when one
can buy a M3 AND a 350Z? Both offer comparable HP and driving enjoyment as
the 911, that's why starting 2005 model year Porsche will start offering
more powerful engines and a design (more bug eyed) that which will be
distinguishable between the 911 and the boxter.

 

no, Honda is *arguably* the most advanced car company. That means "it
can be argued that..."

If Honda is INarguably the most advanced car company, what you're saying
is that it CAN'T be argued that Honda is the most advanced car company.
Which is silly, because obviously an argument CAN be made that such is
the case.

 

Why do you say that.....?[/QUOTE]

15 year old BMWs don't drive anything like new, and there aren't that
many on the road--because they're too freaking expensive to keep on the
road.

You talk about "Jap cars", so your bias is obvious. You'll do anything
to slur a car sold by a Japanese company, and make the BMW look like
gold. In fact, there are many, MANY more 15 year old Japanese cars on
the road than BMWs, percentage-wise.

There you go with the "Jap cars" again.

Let me show you a 12 year old Honda that never got exterior care beyond
a washing every now and then and keeping it in the garage, but the
clearcoat is still gorgeous and there's no rust on it--and it drove
every day in all kinds of weather, including lots of snow.

You have a bias, that's for sure. Go ahead and open your mind a bit
about the world of cars.

 

The new 7-series BMW is ugly enough to make me take back what I've
said about European styling. I wouldn't pay $100 for that car, let
alone $100k. I still think that the 3-series has nice lines (at least
until they destroy it in the next re-style), and that with a few
exceptions, the Japanese couldn't design a pretty car to save their
lives and should just hire a European design team. US cars by and
large don't even register and aren't worth talking about.

that's absolutely true. If you're in it for the long haul, and don't
want to put your mechanic's kids through college, buy a Toyota or
Honda.

 

Gee, if they can hire American designers, they could as easily hire
European. It'd help their looks a lot

 

Or, in the case of the Toyota Scion xB, like Whirlpool made a car.

 

This is a proven fact.

Honda decided, after years of building only 4-stroke motorcycles, that they
would build 2-stroke motocross bikes. The first year they were out they
dominated their classes.

Honda decided to go F1 racing. They couldn't decide whether to build one of
two designs, so they built both, just to be sure that they would have the
best one.

Unfortunately, this attitude doesn't explain the Element...

George

 

Except that the S2K engine has so little torque that it is a total PITA to
drive in everyday traffic.

 

Actually, they are. A fair number of the Toyotas and Hondas rolling off US
lines are RHD, and most of those go to Japan.

 

Absolutely. It really isn't fair to compare the Z3 to the S2K though -- the
former is more of a sporty, cute car, like an SLK, while the latter is a real
sports car. Most Z3 and even Z4 buyers would not like the S2K, but a serious
sports driving enthusiast would.

Honda knows they don't have the cachet of BMW, so they eschew the
sports/luxury/prestige niche in favor of the youth/sports niche that no one else
is addressing.

It's true, if/when Honda does decide to build a BMW-killer (as Toyota/Lexus
has), watch out!

I'd have to think about that one. For fun sports driving I'd much rather have
the Miata, but for long highway trips I'd take the Z3.

Yes it was, unfortunately it was also a tinny, unreliable POS.

Matt O.

 

I drive a 1.6L Miata with less torque than an S2K and it does just fine in
everyday traffic. You just have to be willing to rev it. No problems what so
ever.

Ron.

 

You are probably right, but why bother with a roadster for highway trips at
all? Wrong tool for the job.

It was a modern track car you could register for the road - with all the
limitations that this design goal present. The unreliable part was more
because of the hard to reach oil filter, not because of any other design or
execution issue. If the mechanics/owners took care of the car properly - it
usually lasts long enough. But, generally - you are right. They are more
fragile than your average everyday car.

Ron.

 

Not to mention the price tag $$$

 

Which was the point of my post - a car built to BMW specifications - and in
the quantities supported by a "BMW market" would cost the same as a BMW.

Jack

 

Honda exported some versions of US-built Accords to Japan in past years
because the particular version was not built in Japan.

Toyota currently exports the Voltz to Japan. The Voltz is similar to
the Pontiac Vibe (which itself is only cosmetically different from the
Toyota Matrix), but has right hand drive and other modifications for
the Japan market. The Voltz and Vibe are made in the same factory in
the US (where Corollas and Tacomas are also built).

 

Around here, for every '85 bimmer on the road, there's about a 1000 Civic Hatch. My
ratio might be a little off, but old Civic are a common occurence and the old
bimmers are nowhere to be seen. However, I agree that an old car, in good condition,
can still kick ass.

Pars