Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

My last E30 had around 350k on it, and last I heard it was still going strong.

Matt O.

 

I don't know, but it may have something to do with the number of cars
sold initially?

I don't remember seeing very many bimmers running around in '85. I do
remember seeing way too many civics!

Dan

 

How many '85 Civics does he see on the road now I wonder?

-Russ.

 

Sold my 85 Civic last year, and the fella is driving the crap out of it. It
spent all of its life in the snowbelt, and had 160k miles with orig starter,
clutch, water pump, CV shafts, alternator....

 

Porsches to Germans are like Monte Carlos to us. They rather have
Italian or BMW. I have a friend Heintz who lives around the corner
from me He is a 70 year old consultant to a German manufacturer. He
goes to Germany once a year. His take on America's so called love
affair with Porches? The uninformed and idiot Blondes who can barely
pronounce the name are privvy to the car. You meet a blonde say you
have a Porsche and she bends over backwards,....or forwards. I like to
say I have a Porsche even though I own two BMW's. A front Porsche and
a back Porsche. Come on over and sit and chat.

 

The Japanese are smarter than the Americans. They only buy
imported products when they can't buy domestic. They support
their own economy first, we should be so smart.



mike hunt

 

Must be why they have been in a receccion for a decade now...

Why is it always the defenders of the "American way" that call for the non
free-market way?

Ron.

 

I violently disagree with the below:

I think the problem is not the American workers, but the American
management. There seems to be a common perception that the low level
American working man is the lowest of all the citizens in Europe or
Japan, but I honestly believe that the real issue is that American
MANAGERS are STUPID.

American workers routinely get slammed for their work ethic, yet,
their has not been one single promise kept that has been made to them.
Despite all of the lies of the last 40 years, they still do what they
can to support their country, as a percentage of income donate more to
charity than the American upper classes, and still send their sons and
daughters off to fight the wars that the American political leaders
continually bumble into. I don't think the work ethic is the problem
with the American worker. I think the problem is that the American
managers of car companies are people that do not know how to build
cars, that American engineers are people that know AutoCad but cannot
weld.

By contrast let's not forget that the original Mr. Toyoda and the
original Mr. Honda founded their companies in the postwar era, and ran
them quite successfully until both retired / died very recently.
Whereas, American automative companies have been run for the last 30
years by "professional managers", as opposed to inventors. To make a
long story short, Toyota was run by a guy that knew how to build cars,
whereas GM and Ford have been run by guys that know how to use
PowerPoint.

Employees know when their bosses are idiots. It's human nature to
test your leaders for competence. If your leaders are competent, you
can trust them. If you can trust them, you can build better. When
you worked at a Honda plant, there was always a chance that if you
took a complaint up to the top about an engine design, or had a beef
with something knew coming from the top, there would be Mr. Honda, who
would explain that he tried your dumb idea in 1956 and thought that it
sucked for XYZ reasons. In the United States, you would get an MBA
whose never built a car engine in his or her life. What do they say
in America, when managers first come to a car company: "I have to
learn the business rules...", that is, they don't know what they are
doing. Then, when they hit 40-50, and start to actually know
something, they are considered too old and they get whacked again.

Bob Lutz has to be in his early 60s, and, DUE TO HIS AGE AND NOT IN
SPITE OF IT, he's one of the bright spots in American automative right
now. I LOVE THE NEW CTS. That's not to say that the BMW is a bad car
or that the Japanese make bad cars. BMWs and Toyotas and Hondas are
all AMAZING CARS. But I'm a flag waving yahoo that likes the way the
CTS looks and so I want one.

I'm 35, which is, just starting to get old enough to realize how
stupid I was in my 20s!

 

Well stated! I concur.
--

~~Philip

"Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

 

Ever looked-up www.bmwlemon.com ?? IMHO BMW is just another
overhyped sedan.........

do u guys think?

 

Toyota currently exports the Voltz to Japan. The Voltz is similar to

Reminds me of when Chevy (?) made a car similar to the Toyota Corrola in the
mid to late 80s. Supposedly "similar", but funny how the American car had
many more problems. Fifteen years later, though, they would probably be much
more "similar".

 

I don't either. Travel around a bit and you'll see that Americans work harder
and more conscientiously than anyone. Furthermore, it's because they choose to.

Well, sort of. Actually I think the problem is that the American execs are not
car guys, they're generic business professionals for whom the product is
incidental -- whether it's cars or cola.

This is a good point, and there's a lot of truth to it. It's particularly true
of Sony, a company founded by (and run by) a dyed in the wool inventor, design
buff, marketer, and gadget freak. Akio Morita and Steve Jobs had a lot in
common. Japanese car companies are closer to that original inventor/auteur's
culture.

And so is BMW -- if they weren't effectively a private company, I doubt they'd
be able to build the cars that they do.

Matt O.

 

Civic didn't come into it's own until 1988. The 1985 tended to rust away.
However, lots of 1988 and earlyer on the road.

Pars

 

Too bad you have to destroy any credibility you might have with
obvious lies like this...

 

I'm with you so far.

The policy handbook is full of promises that are fulfilled. 40 hour
work week, health benefits, 401K's, IRA matching funds etc. This
statement is hyperbole and simply wrong. Employees get paid, even if
the company goes broke. Shareholders lose their money if things go
bad.

I just paid full retail for an irrigation project which is just big
tinker toys. I had to get an estimate and less than one days work.
The first worker missed 4 scheduled appointments in a row, because I
wasn't his best "deal" that day. He didn't call, he just never showed
up. The next worker missed the first appointment, made the second
which he charged me $100 for an estimate that took 10 minutes. He
missed the next appointment and finally did the job the fourth
appointment. I scheduled 7 days to get less than one days work over a
6 week period. You should hear the howls of outrageous indignation if
I keep a worker waiting 5 minutes while I drive 1 mile to my rental,
if he shows up 4 hours late. Their time is money dammit. How dare I
waste their time! There is a distribution of work ethic. A few have
it, many don't.

He goes long. Touchdown!!!

Greed is the problem, not competence. The real conflict is between
personal power and professional power. Supposedly managers use their
power to enrich the company, in return they get a salary and benefits.
In reality they use their power to enrich themselves. Power is
wealth and wealth is power. Employees do this too, but managers have
10 times the discretionary power of employees. How many workers put
lunch at the Hilton on their expense account? How many workers have
an expense account? How many workers vote themselves 100,000 shares
of stock options for a job well done? Isn't it amazing the number of
elected officials that retire millionaires when they all complain
about maintaining dual households on a meager salary? If politicians
DIDN'T use their public power for personal advancement only bean
counters would go into politics to keep the potholes filled and
electricity on. Exploitation of professional power for personal gain
is the reason for being a manager or politician. There are
exceptions, I just insulted Bob in Minnesota

It's a popular conceit that managers can manage anything. They just
hire technical expertise.
In Europe mechanical engineer often spend time as machinists. An
American mechanical engineer may not even know where the on/off switch
is on a lathe. Guess who designs parts that can readily be made?

And then you'll hit 40.

Cheers,
Roadie Roger

 

(Todd Bandrowsky) wrote in message
(snip)

American workers build many of the highest-quality cars in the US.
Namely, the US-built Japanese brands. So there's no doubt that
American workers are competitive in ability with any other workers in
the world, IMHO.

I don't know if that's exactly the problem, but it does seem pretty
strange to me that US makers now have only 46% of the US market and
that US makers just seem to find it so difficult to build any cars
that will last or at the very least, have decent interior fit and
finish and interior parts that won't fall off within a few years (a
pet peeve of mine). And with the years of experience Honda and Toyota
have already gained with hybrid cars in the US, it looks to me like
the Japanese are much more willing than US makers to make the effort
to move ahead on new technologies.

I'd have no trouble recommending a US-built car...if it has a Japanese
nameplate on it.

(snip)

 

As a frequent visitor to Germany I can't quite agree that Porsches are THAT
common, though there a lot of them about.

Good quality cars, whatever you think of their 'widespreadedness'.

BMWs and Mercs are ubiquitous, what with having models at the no. 2 and 3
slots in the German sales hitparade. (Golf is NUMBER 1.)

DAS

 

What you "remember" is the Chevy Nova which at that time was simply a
rebadged Corolla. The car did NOT have "many more problems" than
Chevrolet's own crap economy cars of the period.
--

~~Philip

"Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

 

Elmo
This kind of thing has been done. Daewoo Automotive built Mercedes Benz cars
"under license" in factories in Poland under their own name. I saw these
vehicles at a Daewoo training center in LA.. Many components of these
vehicles were dido copies of Mercedes car components. Datson once built a
almost exact copy of the MG for US sales in the 60's. Recently Chrysler
sued GM because the Humvee had seven slots in the grill just like Jeep's
have. The judge through it out because the Humvee was already in production.
IBM not Apple let other companies copy their design legally. There are
legalities and copy rights involved with any product.
Mike

 

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