Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

Randy Given wrote:.

Similar, it was identical! Called the Chevy Nova from 1986-1988. It was
a Corolla!

 

Are you talking about a Datsun 2000? I owned one of those just out of
college and I don't think it was much of a copy of anything. It was a 2
seater ragtop, front engine RWD but beyond that had not much of anything
in common with MG. In those days, MG's sort of had a reputation of
needing someone to follow you down the road and pick up stuff that fell
off. I recall thinking it was pretty quick with it's 2L 4 banger....
but then I had been driving an MG Midget prior to that, so most anything
might seem fast.

 

Why would you copy an inferior product?

 

You think you could find a manufacturer that *doesn't* have such a
site set up by a disgruntled owner? Let us know ...

Thank you for your woefully uninformed opinion.

 

Hi Folks

Some time in the not too distant past there lived a man that went under the name
of "HENRY FORD". So what? When Uncle Henry never graduated high School and
actually left education around the 12 grade (I hope this is correct).

An the advent of WW2 and during a BIG newspaper (could be the NY Times or
similar) defamed Uncle Henry as being illiterate and should not be in charge of
a national company making vehicles and armament for the war effort.

Uncle Henry, apparently, sued for defamation of character (or something similar)
and won.

His defence was, apparently, "Your Honour, I run a big company and I have a row
of buttons on my desk and if I want to send a letter to someone I press one of
these buttons and my secretary come in and I dictate a letter and she types it
and sends it. If I want to know the financial state of my company I press
another button and my accountant comes in and he will tell me everything I need
or want to know about the finances. If I want to know about production I press
another button and my chief engineer come in and we discuss these things and the
same for design etc............"

There is no problem in hiring EXPERTS in their field to do the job they like
doing. Take me for example (or not as some of you will), I am an engineer by
nature - I like to know how things work from the simple "see-saw" to the most
complicated engineering accomplishments - I have run my own business' but not as
good as my "accountant" wife (wife #1) could have done but she wouldn't so it
wasn't as "good as it could have been". Not to say we didn't have a good life
style or the business' wasn't a success just "it could do better".

All my employees were my "friends" and I never took advantage and they helped
when help was needed. Fair days pay for a fair days work.........

Unfortunately, things change when companies GROW. Less social interaction, them
& us situations, manager that don't know shit etc.

That's the problem - no real communication. Japanese managers are on the shop
floor and accessible US & UK managers are "GODS" or they think they are!

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

I doubt that has much to do with it.

BMW started life less than a hundred years ago making English cars under
licence. In the fifties they nearly went under and were bought by
Mercedes-Benz. Something happened in the late seventies to turn the
fortunes of the company around to make it the great success story it is now
(and we'll gloss over the little management error of buying Rover...).

MB car division is very successful. I suggest that the key ingredient (also
in common with BMW and some other car manufacturers) is that the managers
are car enthusiasts who are passionately involved in the product. (We'll
gloss over that management decision to buy Chrysler, which might also turn
out to be a little error.)

DAS

 

Not sure why I'm bothering with this troll, but, what the hell. 8)

That's just proof that your experience is quite limited. How old are
you?

This is the best reason to buy a Lexus, of course...

No, I won't believe such ridiculous nonsense. Yes, I've driven one.

Some people. Certainly not all people.

I'll never forget when I bought my 323, an acquaintance of mine said
to me "I know why you bought that. Status." This, despite the fact
that he knew that I was a car enthusist and had many times heard me
and another buddy discuss the advantages of rear-wheel drive, etc.

Gee, do you think it's just possible that I bought it because I loved
the way it drove, and that it was a perfect compact sedan for me and
my small family?

I am continually amazed by the BMW mystique. People think anyone
driving one must be wealthy, and are too dense to consider the fact
that there's a ton of SUV's running-around that cost just as much as a
3-series. 'Course, they don't get a second look, since they're so
common.

Well, if cheap is what you want, there's any number of bland
transportation appliances for you to choose from.

 

I had an old rat diesel Golf (Rabbit). Whatta goof. It was a pretty
decent car up till the end of it's life, when it did a Blues Brothers and
disintegrated almost overnight. One thing, it had the most
orthopedically correct seats I've ever experienced. Even though it
was a rusted out hulk, I would come out after a hard day of work and
get into that seat and my back would sigh in ecstasy.

nb

 

From the dealers, no. Honda part prices are also insanely overpriced.
But, there are so many Hondas on the road, the aftermarket has jumped
in to fill the void. For example, where the factory wants $600 for a
single cv joint, I can get aftermarket cv joints for $140 a pair.

The whole parts industry went berzerk back in the 80's. Used to be
you could get factory parts for a decent price. Then, when Iacocca
decided to pay back Chrysler's govt loan by quadrupling parts prices,
all the other companies followed suit and factory parts prices all
went through the roof, never to return. That's why your best bet
today is to buy the vehicle that will go the longest before requiring
parts replacement. Bingo!! Honda!

nb

nb

 

I'm top posting here because if you want to read the rest you can scroll down.

Well faisa lAjmal Sheikh - why no capital for your first name? -

Your argument is slightly flawed as has been proven. But I must agree on some
points although you will probably not have thought about it this way.

The LEXUS is a comfortable car, travels along the road quite nicely and carries
people in a "safe" way. It will travel at 70mph all day and probably never miss
a beat. It looks - well - nice/terrible depending on your view but it works as
it was designed to.

Being a match for the BMW, a Mercedes, Cadillac?, Volvo?, SAAB, RR? is
something else. Whether or not you love or hate "imports" the LEXUS is not in
competition whatever you might think. There is no competition because a BMW or
a Mercedes is just that and a LEXUS is just another TOYOTA.

BMW models are all stamped BMW as are Mercedes. (Well some BMW models are now
being labeled Rolls Royce but that's a different story as is the VW - Bentley)
Mercedes are being re badged Chrysler - well some of the floorpans and running
gear is and viz-a-viz but the LEXUS is just another TOYOTA with bells and
whistles.

You must remember that, in general, there are speed limits in the US and the UK
and most other parts of the world (I know there are exceptions but not many) and
all the cars travel quite nicely at 70mph and some at 80mph although most modern
cars will surpass the 100mph mark and quite a few this side of the Atlantic UK +
Europe will pass the 120mph mark with ease. Above this speed there are a few
cars that actually feel safe let alone be SAFE. The Ford Mondeo SST is safe to
about 140mph my BMW 740i is too at 155mph. The Aston Martin (Ford) will hit 180
with ease as will many other cars. The Jaguar, McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari
companies have cars that will clock over 200mph with ease and safely but with a
drive trained and experienced at that speed but definitely not in downtown LA,
London, Paris etc. as most owners would have you believe.

All the fast cars I have seen in the US are driven slowly - because the owner
want's you to get a good look at him/her (posing) and their wealth, good looks,
style or whatever. Even the Corvette driver goes slow (70 or under and at the
posted limits) so you can have a good look at their taste/style etc.

Experts and lovers of fine machinery will try to drive around in just that.
Fine machinery! Of course machinery wears out and breaks down - some sooner
than others - but don't mistake style for excellent engineering.

The TOYOTA cars are well built and do what it says on the box so do BMW, HONDA
and the others just that some do it better.

Hugh

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen


http://www.bognor-bill.co.uk
Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

-------------------------------------------------
Vyisder Asmeni
Orsisarsis Asderisorsis.
B.Cozderiz
Vunarz
PERORZ
-------------------------------------------------

 

Similar, it was identical! Called the Chevy Nova from 1986-1988. It was

Which is my point! The Novas that I saw had many more problems and died
earlier (my 1987 Corolla went 240k miles before selling it, still driveable
and not a rust-bucket). Now, the reasons for differences could be many --
they actually could have had something done differently on the line (I DID
notice some cosmetic differences, because several neighbors had Novas); the
drivers could be a different type of driver; and so on. At the time, there
were numerous cartoons about having an "American" car that actually was
"Japanese" (one example was the Nova) and the cartoon showed the salesman
making his pitch just as the "American" decal sticker popped off.

 

The car did NOT have "many more problems" than

LOL. Yes, for THEIR crap. So, why did the Corollas in our neighborhoods (and
many others that I talked to) last twice as long, have fewer problems,
rusted less, etc.

I am well-versed in blind and double-blind testing, so no need to preach to
the choir. Still, when I see so many examples of two "identical" things
acting so differently?

 

BMW started in 1916 making aircraft engines, not cars or motorcycles.
BMW was dismantled by the Allied forces after WWII, and when they
started back up, they produced kitchen and garden equipment before
introducing a low-cost motorcycle. There was a proposal to merge with
MB in 1959, but it never came to pass. In the 1960's, BMW turned its
fortunes around by concentrating on sports sedans and touring cars,
and luxury cars in the U.S. in competition with MB. Sales plummeted
in 1986 with the introduction of the Lexus and Infiniti. It was the
collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989 which really got them going as
automobile sales in Europe took off. In 1990 they formed a joint
venture with Rolls-Royce, and as you say, in 1994 acquired an 80%
share of Rover.

Dick

 

But now you've changed the subject to fixing your own vehicle with
aftermarket parts. BMW's are also far from scarce, and the BMW aftermarket
is also huge, and deals abound there as well. Besides this, BMW made a
strategic decision in the 90's to reduce parts prices at the dealers. The
end result being that their parts prices are pretty much now on par with
those of other imports.

Again you have no evidence that this is true. I'd be very surprised if
Toyota isn't ahead of Honda on reliability. Second, taking parts longevity
as your sole criterion for which car to buy indicates to me that you view a
car pretty much the way you view a refrigerator-as an appliance. Others have
a different point of view and different priorities around the car they
drive. Besides, most all cars are pretty reliable these days. My 330i is far
more reliable in its first yr than my 89 Accord was in its' first year. All
cars have improved in reliability, with the Japanese doing a bit better on
average than the Europeans and a bit better still than the Americans.

 

I am in complete agreement. And this applies to more than just cars.
The system is wrong. Managers should be picked from the best workers on
a project and trained Instead, some MBA with cursory knowlege of the
product (and probably someone who could care less what the product is),
is hired to manage projects they know little about. The result is cost
overruns, late projects, poor choice of employees, bad designs, etc...
Of course, some profit from the resulting mess so it's a dysfunctional
system that can be lucrative to some.

 

Sorry, but the Nova was nothing at all like a Corolla.

 

There is nothing even remotely similar between a Nova and a Corolla.

 

Other then the better Delco stereo system, the Nova was virtually
identical to the corolla.
Back in 1986, it was my first car.

Pars

 

Hate to bust your bubble my friend, but the managers are 'on
the floor' at GM and Ford, same as the Japanese managers in the
US. I would point out as well that apparently not everyone
believes the Japanese make the best vehicles. Both GM and Ford
outsell ANY Japanese manufactures in the US or world wide..



mike hunt

 

GM and Ford HAVE to sell more....the cars don't last...

I noticed you just traded your piece of crap Ford in...why???


Scott in Florida