Why cant Toyota or Honda make a car that drives just like a BMW?

It was two years old and the tires where worn down a bit.


mike hunt

 

LOL

I suspect it will be in ruins by the time it has as many miles as my
'92 Corolla!

Good move...get rid of it before it blows up...

Scott in Florida

 

I have no idea how long it would have lasted had I kept
that one. Pretty long I suppose, the oldest Ford I own
is a 1941 and the one with the most mileage is nearing
300K so you will have to ask some other Ford owner who
has one older or with more mileage, mine are still going
strong.


mike hunt

 

I don't know that what you say is accurate. Both cars rolled off the
NUMMI assembly line in Fremont, CA
--

~~Philip

"Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

 

What an ignorant, rash, and stupid comment.

Yea...there's Mike...and some other guy...I forget his name.

Numbers game...nothing more.

Try using POVs along with affordability numbers...Jap cars *KILL* American
cars.

 

And it had 500 miles on it.

 

I don't.

*If* your even telling the truth, this is either a restore or rebuild.

....and on its third engine...

What a pathetic mark you are...

 

Your a complete idiot.

The reason Americans buy foreign cars over domestic, is because we work damn
hard for our money, and when we spend it, we want the best value.

The Japanese aren't "smarter than Americans", but rather Americans demand
value. And until the American car manufacturers can compete with our
Japanese counterpart, *smart* Americans will continue to spend their money
wisely.

You should have rephrased your statement to say... "The Japanese are smarter
than this American".

 

I don't think so.

In 1913, the company that was to become BMW staretd manufacturing
motocycles.

BMW was incorpoated in 1916, making airplane engines for Germany's WW1
efforts. It wasn't until 1918 when BMW bought the Eisenach automobile
plant and started to produce automobiles, well through the depression
up until WW2.

After WW1, they were forced by the terms of the peace treaty to stop
making airplane engines. At this point, they engaged primarily in
automobile manufacturing, but secretly continued R&D in airplane
engines, until WW2 started at which point they supported the war
effort entirely with their manufacturing capabilities. Their airplane
engines powered the Focke Wulf FW190, and they developed the first
prototype jet engine.

The BMW symbol represents airplane propeller blades.

It wasn't until 1948 and 1951, after a three year ban on manufacturing
imposed by the Allies, that BMW once again began sellig motorcycles
and automobiles, respectively.

Not true. There was an attempt, but it failed and shortly thereafter,
BMW started its' progression towards the great company we know today.

1975 - the 320 introduction, and the formation of BMW NA.

Phil

 

How did your last BMW treat you?

-Russ.

 

Your argument is slightly flawed as has been proven. But I must agree on some

Nonsense. When Lexus entered the market with the LS400, it was in
many ways, better than its direct rivals from Europe in performance,
quality, engineering sophistication, and value. But competition being
the nature of the game, BMW and MB has caught up in many QFD aspects.
I think Lexus is sufficiently differentiated from Toyota that they
deserve to be recognized as more than "just another Toyota."
Certainly, that would be like calling Audi just another VW.

BMW/MB and Lexus go head-to-head in many categories that Lexus offers.
Certainly, BMW, MB has many higher end vehicles, but they also have
many LOWER end vehicles than the Lexus nameplate. According to
industry standards, Lexus customer service is also a lot better.

What's your point? Lexii, like most high-end sporty vehicles are very
capable high speed cruisers. All the engineering techniques used by
BMW/MB are also available to Toyota.

Are you trying to imply that Lexii do not feel safe past 120 mph. I
have extensive experience behind the wheels of MBs, BMWs and Lexii and
I would beg to differ.

Chip

 

Actually it's the opposite. Lexus has pretty much stayed with the
same formula as when they started out, which was to produce the
ultra-refined, clinically-perfect, executive express. The ignorant
usually believe that Lexus "copied" the European automakers.
Actually, they created the perfect American luxury car, which was
always the target consumer. If anything, all the other luxury
automakers, BMW, MB, Jaguar, have homogenized their driving experience
to become much more similar to the Lexus formula, which surprise,
surprise is what the largest luxury car market in the world wants.
Anyone with any experience behind the wheel of the older generation
Euro automobiles cannot deny that they have lost much of the character
and Teutonic edge that set them apart. They are now racing to
out-Lexus, Lexus.

Chip

 

Amen to that. I could drive for 18 hours in the '79 Rabbit Diesel and there
was no sign of fatigue in my back. No other car has ever been even half
that good. But it died an ignominious death. The timing belt snapped
literally 8 miles from the dealer on the way to trading it in.

 

I realised that I had phrased it (about Merc nearly buying) badly but
thought I'd leave it unless someone picked up on it. Merc nearly bought BMW
when it was going through very hard times in the fifties. (You confirmed
it.)

Even if I missed out the short period of non-car activity, my main point is
that it did not start out as car manufacturer on its own. Nothing wrong
with that, but it wasn't a great car company until the first of the present
3-series, as you rightly say. Before that it certainly had cars known for
high-revving engines but, IIRC, they were also known for unreliability/high
maintenance. MB already had a global reputation for quality.

Whilst your addition of historical events is interesting, it doesn't add to
my contention about the success of BMW, namely that is the passion and
dedication of the managers (and, probably, workers) that have lead to
sucess, not that it's effectively privately owned. The Quandt family would
probably sell out if things went downhill.

DAS

 

I violently disagree with the above. There is plenty of blame to go
around.

Not that management couldn't do this on their own but Unions help
management de-humanize workers into interchangeable production line
machines. This permeates the organization so that upper level management
treats lower levels as interchangeable modules to be used and discarded at
whim. The net result is too much inertia for rapid improvement. Is much
easier and faster to fire all the workers and build a new plant elsewhere.

Who knows? It may be all this inefficiency and inertia is what it takes to
build an organization capable of mass producing cars. Nobody has been able
to do it any other way yet.

 

During those years (and later) they were built on the same lines at the
NUMMI joint venture plant launched in 1984 between Toyota and GM.

Later they changed it from Nova to Prisim. The Prisim was still a Toyota
Corolla.

The Nova of the 70's was a totally different, fully American car.

-Russ.

 

Absolutely. The German-built 70s and 80s VWs were great cars. They all had
great seats. I had a '79 Rabbit Diesel too, and it was one of the best cars I
ever owned. It might not have had much power, but it had that overall balance
(like a BMW) that gave you the most of what it had. It had a simple suspension
with no anti-roll bars, but perfect spring and shock rates. It rode and handled
beautifully. I had a couple of 50k mile years in that car, driving all over the
West on climbing trips.

These weren't the most reliable cars, but nothing was back then. By modern
standards they were crap, but back then they were better than average.

Matt O.

 

Why would you say that? I have one friend with a 1939 Ford coupe that
is absolutely original, except for the tires and other soft items like
fan belt, etc. Another friend has a 1941 Ford couple that is
completely original except for things like the 1939. Plus it has been
repainted in the original color, and the floor mat is carpet instead
of the original rubber. Absolutely beautiful condition. Neither car
has ever been touched by a rebuilder or restorer.

Dick

 

Well, some would say the 328 of the late 30's we pure magic. Many
were turned into racers.

Again I disagree. BMW never was know for unreliability. In fact, the
reason why they became so succesful in the early days was that they
had the most reliable engine for airplanes. They repeated this
success during WW2. And the Beamers will add that the was never a
reliability issue with their motorcycles.

Most definite.

Phil

 

This is probably going to be seen as "trolling" but here goes.

What did happen is that people used to driving N.A. cars just got in and
drove them, like they do with "Big Three" cars, rather than following
the $400/3mos "normal maintenance" schedule of the Toyota. More
problems were reported because they were not corrected during
"maintenance" as they were at the Toyota dealerships.

(oooo, that aught to stir the pot!) |>))

Dan