[QUOTE] I don't know if this applies to your cars, but .... The manual with my 2002 Pathfinder recommends changing the cabin air filter if the defroster loses effectiveness in defogging the windows. If your cars are new enough to have cabin air filters, when was the last time they were changed? [/QUOTE] Thanks for the idea. I've never changed them. One of the vehicles is old enough for its filter to probably need changing. Someone else in one of the groups suggested those items one puts on the top angled part of the front windows, which allows one to slightly open the window without the rain getting in (and I've always wondered what those were for...)