Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

Because, unlike a car, a refrigerator's refrigerant system is
hermetically sealed. It CANNOT leak unless its physically punctured.
Refrigerators don't fail by losing refrigerant, they fail when the
compressor locks up or burns out.

That is without a doubt the STUPIDEST analogy I've ever read.

And if you really see a car as equivalent to an 'appliance,' then we've
really got nothing to discuss anyway.

 

Oh, REALLY?

That's patently nonsense, and I can give you a concrete example. The
whole point is that the gauge will tell you when some things are wrong
that a dipshit light will not. My wife's car (1993 Chrysler LH) has an
analog temperature gauge which, despite actually being routed
second-hand through the engine computer, has come in very handy. That
car has dual electric cooling fans, and a few years ago one fan motor
failed. Because it had a GAUGE and not an idiot light, she was able to
see that it was running just slightly hotter than normal (about 1/2
division, or maybe 15 degrees F) in traffic, so we opened the hood and
checked things out. The one remaining fan *SOUNDED* normal, so I would
have ever noticed the problem without that gauge, and my wife could have
been stranded somewhere or I could have wound up with a pair of warped
cylinder heads and a ruined engine if the second fan had failed also.
Instead I was able to put the fan motor on order and then replace it
without ever having to take the car out of service except for the actual
time required to change the fan motor (about half an hour).


Similarly, I've had oil pressure gauges behaving in an abnormal way warn
me that the oil filter had collapsed internally and was bypassing all
the time- something that an idiot light would never do.

Lights are ONLY useful to call attention to a reading that's gone out of
range. Gauges warn before the problem gets critical. The best of both
worlds is a light that tells you to check the gauges.

 

Then you must have really crappy engines....

 

Because, unlike a car, a refrigerator's refrigerant system is
hermetically sealed. It CANNOT leak unless its physically punctured.[/QUOTE]

Ah, so it CAN leak. Wouldn't you want to know if that happened?

The point is, something could go wrong at any time, refrigerator or car.
Wouldn't you want a gauge showing you at a moment's notice as the
refrigerant is slowly leaking out, so that you don't end up with a warm
fridge and spoiled food?

of COURSE that's abnormal. But then, so is the car overheating.

 

That is without a doubt the STUPIDEST analogy I've ever read.

And if you really see a car as equivalent to an 'appliance,' then we've
really got nothing to discuss anyway.[/QUOTE]

You really don't understand how the world works, do you.

Yes, the car is an appliance--for 99.9% of the people out there. Yet
you, somehow, think that your desire to have a temp gauge that behaves
the way you want it means that it's a necessity.

 

Hardly. There's a car, actually a plethora of them, for every taste.

At any rate, now we know what your ACTUAL complaint is. You can't find
a car to suit your particular tastes.

Ain't that a bitch.

 

<brag>
My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. And a "check gauges" idiot light.
And they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
"clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
is lower at idle when the engine is warm. It even registers a bit
higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30.
</brag>

Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.

Ray

 

Unless most of the leaks ended up being at the gauge.

 

Ah, so it CAN leak. Wouldn't you want to know if that happened?[/QUOTE]

The probability of a rock flying into the condesor coils underneath my
fridge and causing a leak is astronomically low. The odds of a rock
nicking a tube in my radiator is not nearly as low (lower if the car has
A/C because the condensor would take the hit first....). Also there are
about 4 to 9 pressurized rubber hoses and 8 to 18 hose clamps all
waiting to leak on a car cooling system, not to mention fans that can
fail, thermostats that get sticky, and radiator caps that quit holding
pressure, etc. etc. And that's just the SUBTLE failures that will first
show up by mild overheating, not the disasters like a burst hose or
blown head gasket.

A fridge failing is FAR more abnormal (and less expensive when it does
happen) than a car running hot.

 

You really don't understand how the world works, do you.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do. The manufacturers build for the majority of nitwits. I just
don't necessarily LIKE the way the world works....

Actually, >>I<< never said that it would stop me from buying a car at
all. Its trivial to add a gauge if its important to you (and it SHOULD
be, but I digress again.) On the other hand, when I see that a
manufacturer took the time to put in a gauge, it makes me think hjust a
little more highly of the competence of the engineers who stood their
ground against the air-headed right-brain type stylists, marketing
lizards, and bean-counters.

 

Anyone who actually uses a shift light should stick to driving
automatics.... ;-)

 

Again, its not MY problem, I'm just commenting on it as a symptom of how
ignorant of how a car works the average driver has become.

Besides I have 5 cars that suit my taste beautifully, and there are
plenty of others I'd love to have (a Challenger SRT-8 tops the list, but
that aint gonna happen unless I were to sell the '69 R/T convertible and
that's not bloody likely)

 

Again, its not MY problem, I'm just commenting on it as a symptom of how
ignorant of how a car works the average driver has become.[/QUOTE]

No, it's a symptom of how appliance-like the cars have become--which
depends on, and also feeds, the fact that auto transportation has become
a necessity--not a hobby, not a luxury.

When the Model T came out, you had to know everything about the car and
be your own mechanic. Of course, that was OK back then. Now imagine
the Model T being the primary source of transportation today.

Face it: technology starts out in the labs, then hits the early
adopters, then eventually becomes mainstream--and appliance-like. I
don't have to know how a computer works just to be able to take and send
pictures on my cell phone.

You don't like that technology becomes an appliance. Tough shit.
That's how life works.

 

The probability of a rock flying into the condesor coils underneath my
fridge and causing a leak is astronomically low.[/QUOTE]

True. But the probability of your $900 fridge being a cheap piece of
Chinese junk and leaking coolant and ruining the food in your fridge is
MUCH greater today than it ever has been.

Hence, it would be prudent to protect your food investment, if nothing
else, by using such a gauge.

And modern refrigerators are Chinese junk made for the sole purpose of
making the manufacturer money by appearing JUST ENOUGH to be an actual
fridge. The details are different from the car, but the risk of failure
is just as great.

 

The purpose of the shift light is for drag racing. When the nitrous
kicks in, it's important that I don't hit the factory rev limiter.

(why? because the factory rev limiter works by dropping a cylinder, and
if the nitrous is flowing and I don't get a spark, I'll probably end up
blowing the engine sky high.)

And anyone who makes a comment about shift lights and automatics
probably doesn't (a) bracket race or (b) have 400+ hp on tap.

Ray

 

no dude, it's the other way around. the engineers doctor the gauge so
it only tells you two things - normal and too hot, and only one of those
is important. left to their own devices, they'd leave the waste of
space out. it's the marketing lizards that insist on a gauge because
people like you think they need one and get all amped up about a subject
they haven't bothered to analyze or don't understand. even when given
the facts.

 

like the ignorant average driver that thinks the "temp gauge" in his car
is actually telling him anything other than "normal" and "too hot"?

 

An interesting note to the "Godsend" GM shift light is that it was
operated by the same circuit (and then slightly modified by vehicle
speed rationality logic) as the torque converter lock up circuit used
on automatic trans models. Sure miss *that* feature

Toyota MDT in MO

 

I forgot about that "shift light" - my truck has one... the upshift to
save gas nag light. On my old Jimmy I just took the bulb out. On my
current truck, where I like the steering wheel it just blocks it.

Ray

 

Comboverfish!

Stop hanging around in r.a.t (hey, how about that!) and come back to us!!!

As for those lights, I had one in a Jetta, and got WORSE fuel economy
using it!