Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

i think he's telling you that some people are too stupid to understand
that a typical gauge doesn't tell people much. and in some rare cases,
some individuals can't be told anything, no matter how hard it's dumbed
down.

 

it's already built in!!!

see above!

that's the best of the lot! so why not fit a spare steering wheel while
you're about it. idiot.

 

A minority, but fairly large, percentage of car buyers are enthusiasts
that understand how things work.[/QUOTE]

And they are not the audience the carmakers want.

 

Its also harmless to them. Better yet, after watching a gauge a while,
they'll learn what it means just like my wife did.[/QUOTE]

Not harmless at all--it costs the money.

And 99.99% of the people won't learn and will never care.

You need to get out more.

 

And they are not the audience the carmakers want.
[/QUOTE]

nah - there's a HUGE difference between those that /think/ they know and
those that /actually/ do. i know that from having been on both sides of
the vehicle fence - pure engineering and technician. even if you gave
an "enthusiast" a "real" temp gauge, what are you going to do with the
information? i know a thing or two about vehicle design, but unless i
had a specific usage/conditions map for my vehicle, i wouldn't be able
to "use" the readout. and even if i did, it /still/ wouldn't mean
anything substantive to operation unless it was over spec!

 

And they are not the audience the carmakers want.[/QUOTE]

Why not?

Why do the auto makers care how enthusiastic people are about cars?

Jeff

 

And they are not the audience the carmakers want.[/QUOTE]

Incorrect. They want knowledgeable people to recommend their vehicles to
their friends, neighbors and family members.

Jeff

 

so by looking at the "temperature gauge", you can assess the vehicle's
performance and reliability and thus offer a sales endorsement? dude,
you're priceless! keep it rolling - this is great! homer simpson
builds the canyonero!

 

Actually, yes you can. e.g. if the temp. creeps up at a stoplight in
warm weather, even if it never overheats, it's a fair bet that there's a
failure in the cooling fan controls or else the cooling system is
partially plugged with rust, scale, or overenthusiastic application of
"stop leak" products.

You can't get that kind of info from an idiot light.

nate

 

how far do you want to take this? you can go hog wild and measure the
working temperature of each piston, each bearing and each exhaust valve
if you really want, and you can justify it in terms of "predicting more
serious problems". but the reality is, on a properly maintained system,
this is a zero issue. and it's only vaguely useful on improperly
maintained ones - just like you describe - because by then, it's usually
too late.

it's totally not unreasonable for a manufacturer to assume half-way
competent standards of maintenance. if those standards are not kept,
and you describe them perfectly, then i think a manufacturer is
perfectly entitled to abandon the vehicle [and its instrumentation] to
its fate.

 

Steve,

the people responding to you are not amenable to logic. Just so you
know, there are people who understand that in this case, more
information is either useful or, if discarded/ignored, harmless.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

This may be the most ironic statement I have ever read.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen

 

Steve,

the people responding to you are not amenable to logic. Just so you
know, there are people who understand that in this case, more
information is either useful or, if discarded/ignored, harmless.[/QUOTE]

It's not harmless at all--as described earlier in this thread, with
fluctuating gauges simply reflecting normal operation. But, the
ignorant people seeing the fluctuation immediately assumed "something's
wrong," and took the car in for service.

 

how far do you want to take this? you can go hog wild and measure the
working temperature of each piston, each bearing and each exhaust valve
if you really want, and you can justify it in terms of "predicting more
serious problems".[/QUOTE]

That's what Steve and his narrow-minded people want. They don't
understand the REAL world in which the typical car buyer lives.

 

That's right. In another few years, they'll eliminate ALL the
instrumentation. No more speedometers, since automated governors
linked by radio to the electronic highway system will make it
impossible to speed. No more temperature gauges, voltmeters, or
oil pressure gauges.

In the new era, there will just be one light on the dashboard,
that says "REPLACE CAR" and when it comes on, the GPS system will
print directions to the nearest GM dealer that you can give to the
taxi cab driver that Onstar will dispatch.

Oh, actually, I take that back. They'll still be selling automatics
with a tachometer, because everybody knows tachometers are cool.
--scott

 

That's what Steve and his narrow-minded people want. They don't
understand the REAL world in which the typical car buyer lives.
[/QUOTE]

doesn't understand the world in which anyone lives.

once the machine is tested and out the door, the detailed
instrumentation is done. i have absolutely no desire to know my exhaust
valve temperatures because i know that they can operate for over 1000
hours, at the highest temperature the engine can produce, with 99.9999%
probability that they will remain within spec. any "engineer" or
"enthusiast" that /thinks/ they need to monitor this situation beyond
that is either didn't do their homework, is not confident of their own
abilities or /knows/ they didn't do something right in testing or
production.

 

one for you dave:
http://www.tfot.info/news/1094/some-people-never-learn.html

 

you've never worked in customer support then...

 

but the reality is, on a properly maintained system,

I thought he was talking about properly maintaining the cooling fans. Some
people drive cars that have more than a 1000 hours on them.

-jim

 

But that is precisely how most non-enthusiast-owned vehicles are
maintained. People do the bare minimum to keep the vehicle running, and
generally plan on trading it in at 5 years old or less, and/or driving
it until the wheels fall off at 7-8 years old. Do you want to buy a
used car from one of these people?

Yes, it is, because those do not reflect reality.

Sure, but that will drastically affect resale value of used cars, when
buyers don't want to touch them and/or consider them disposable after a
couple years and price them accordingly.

nate